Electric

Around 6000 euros a kilowatt. Have a look on the ENEL web site they offer several simulations which allow you to estimate the payback time for wind and solar installations-solar water heating is obviously the first step towards a greener future-but probably not cost effective unless you live there permanently.     http://www.enelgreenpower.com/it/

Hi Ali.As BUNTERBOY says, its just not cost-effective for a holiday home. I would go one step further and say that it's not cost effective even if you live in Italy permanently.1 kw will just about run your PC, TV  and other electronic machines. Forget using an electric kettle for a nice cup of tea.At the moment we've got a 3kw supply from Enel and as we are still in the UK, the consumption is zero, obviously. We've decided to apply to Enel to increase the supply to 6kw (5.9kw to be precise) which will give us about 25 amps. We understand that anything above 6kw requires planning permission and may still not be granted.The costs will be more but no way near to the ridiculous costs of a photovoltaic panel.I know we all should try and do our bit for the environment however one has to draw the line sometimes.#1

Hello numerouna,I've never heard of anyone having to apply for planning permission for more than a 6kw supply. It could be that new power lines have to be installed and this could require permission. If the lines are already there, however, you can increase above 6kw very easily. Also a 6kw supply in reality should be around 6.5kw to 6.6kw as there is normally an overerror of 10%.

Hello numerouno,I won't hijack the thread either (apologies) but the "surge" is more or less permanent. Supply should'nt ever fall below 6kw.

Have not heard about planning permission needed for over 6Kw. We currently have 15Kw on 3 phase, and I asked to have Enel to have this changed to 10Kw for the house and 6 Kw 3 phase for the heat pump. Enel c****d it up, and came to install a 10Kw single phase and gave a preventivo for a new 6Kw 3 phase supply as well.  Had to show the engineer the heat pump, and then he understood and went away. Oh, the joys of Italy to get something completed simply.Will ask our office regarding this though, as it could be important for those needing a decent supply.

Before abandoning PV solar completely perhaps another glance at the maths would be worth a shot. Just on saved bills and payments from the production meter your payback should be around seven years and that includes paying back the bank for the loan they will happily give (just some 65 signatures and 'Robert's your father's brother') Remember it's not about selling excess to the grid - the production meter pays you regardless of whatever happens to the power after that. Power produced during daylight hours and not exported is yours for free and if you are crafty with your timing you can pump the pool, wash up, do laundry etc.... but best of all - run a heat pump and store up some free energy for later... roughly, the power is free during the day and half price at night. (you are effectively charged for using the grid as your private energy store).... so before you doubt too much think how it would be in 7 years time... you would be making enough to pay your wood bill and a lot more besides... you would be running ZERO COST on all energy.... there are four houses near me doing this right now.

The main problem we encountered was that they would not allow any form of solar in the histaorical villages, not water heating nor PV cells!I do understand that it will ruin the villages...but my bank does not....In SA we installed solar geysers and save about 60% of our eletrical costs.

Thanks to all that gave me advice.. will have to think what would be the best.. but all the info is helpful... Thanks again.. if i find anything of interest out will post it on the board..   Ali

Hi,The planning permission is normally granted by the comune, so it depends a bit on their points of view, but I don't think they can really deny it for a private house as long as you integrate it in the building's roof (but depends on shadows, orientation and pendence). You can certainly take the question further, if you want.We just finished installing a PV for a CHURCH in the historical center of the neighbouring village.It did take about one year to get the planning permission because the comune would not give any answer before the  "Sovraintendenza dei beni culturali" had been heard and they only gave the permission on the condition that the panels could not be seen from the underlying "piazza". Instead the PV panels were moved from the church roof onto the roof of the comune's own buildings..:Prices for PV installations have fallen and are now down to 4800 euros/kWp (excl. vat).NOW is the good time to install, nobody knows what happens to the feed-in tariff after 2010...