Translation help please

04/01/2011 - 10:28

Hi, could someone help with some translation please? I have a quote from a geometra but I don't understand the first 2 items and how they differ from the other 3. It's only supposed to be a quote for an accatastamento of 1 residantial building plus outbuilding (plus one omitted by accident from the new map) and an amendment of a previous accatastamento where a room was classed as a terrace instead of a tumble down room: A) Rilievo per la determinazione della maglia fiduciale per la messa in mappa e per l’ampliamento dei fabbricati all’interno del terreno in oggetto; B) Stesura del libretto e della proposta di aggiornamento; C) Rilievo dei fabbricati oggetto di accatastamento; D) Stesura delle planimetrie; E) Stesura dell’elaborato per la definizione della rendita catastale. Total comes to just over €5,000 which seems far too much to me.



I reckon I could STRUGGLE through (to a low level) and get some of it sorted, BUT..................I assumed EVERYONE could do the Italiano linguo MUCH better than I can. Due to your fantastic contributions to this forum over the years , I expect LOTS of top grade help................ I'll try but do NOT rely............. S

immediate google trial.............(doesn't seem TOO bad ?) A) Survey to determine the confidence interval for the top listing and map for the extension of the buildings in the land in question; B) Writing the book and the proposed upgrade; C) Survey of the manufactured object stacking; D) Preparation of plans; E) for writing out the definition of the cadastral income.

This 'maglia fiduciale' is the GPS positioning data which geometras use for mapping, these days. It sounds to me as if there is (as perceived by your geometra) a need to establish a reference point and re-do the GPS survey of the terreno. This is a relatively time consuming business, but for something up to 3Ha should run in at about €1000 (IMO) I'm at a loss about this libretto - but it seems this computer programme which your geometra no doubt uses produces one at the click of a mouse!

Re-accatastamento is now done on a square metre basis - You have a variety of things to do - 2 segnalazione to the catasto for mistakes in the catasto, for which you pay even though its not your fault, and an accatastamento of a residential building - and here the question is - is it a casa fantasma or is it a re-accatastamento? Nevertheless it seems a pretty high figure.  To me the geometra seems to be saying:  A - get a copy of the foglio della mappa and put in the non catasto building which at present doesnt exist - in the right place, as well as the buildings that are bigger than they currently appear...  B - write the report as to why and what and how. C - Measure and prepare the other buildings which have to be catasto/reaccatasto D - draw up the new planimetrie which now have to be done by law, and submitted to the catasto. E - work out how much the RC will be for the new complex of buildings and how much ICI you'll have to pay.  

Thanks folks. I think it's expensive too. RAM - The rural building is not on the list of case fantasme but has never been registered on the urban register either. Strictly speaking I don't think we need to do it as my OH will be regsitered as a farmer and it is a farm building BUT we want to convert it to habitable space so it is cheaper to get it done before we do the atto I believe. Thanks for the explanantion Fillide - the maglia fiduciale had me completely stumped! The reason I think it's dear is because the volumes are tiny. Just 2 outbuildings of approx 12 sqm each and a rural building of 100sqm. I only paid €1300 for the accatastamento of a great big 550sqm farmhouse so it has left me scratching my head. Maybe it's the 'riviera' factor in Liguria??

In reply to by Penny

Actually, I think I have slightly misled you by reference to the GPS usage (and Ram is more precise - it could be done with an old fashioned theodolite), but the first item in your quote certainly concerns re-surveying your terrain to make sure all the dimensions (horizontal and vertical) confirm to an accepted reference point accepted by the catasto. (This, in my experience, is useful if there is a boundary dispute: if there is no dispute it would be 'normal' to accept the information on the publicly accessible 'mappa' - and to locate a building accurately within your boundaries needs three measurments made with a tape measure!) I'd argue with the geometra about the requirement for this bit of the job. Sorting out accatastamenti (again in my experience)  does generate a 'fee per building' rather than relating to the size of the edifice - but this fee (obviously excluding the inevitable diretti di segretaria) should be negotiable with the geometra. One thing is for sure, if you do it now it will be cheaper than if you do it in five years time.

The law requires that all non catastato buildings and fabbricati rurali are reaccatastato as enti urbani by 30 April.  If not there are sanctions and fines if they are done after this date.    The only way you can have a fabbricato rurale after this date is if you are a registered farmer - so if your husband is already a farmer or azienda agricola it would certainly be cheaper leaving them as such before your act - otherwise you will pay tax on the supposed rental value of an ente urbano.  If he is not yet a farmer, then you have no choice and they must be reaccatastato by the end of April.  The only way around this is to catasto the outbuildings as unita colabenti which would leave you free of ICI but might make more problems if you ever decide to make them habitable enti urbani.... 

That's interesting RAM. I was told that there would be no fines but that if they were not registered by the deadline (which keeps moving) then you leave yourself open to the Agenzia del Territorio doing the accatatamento for you (likely to be unfavourable) and sending you the bill. I was also advised that if the current owners send n a form saying the accatastamento is in progress then this would prevent the Agenzia del Territorio from taking action for a few months. Is this your understanding?

As far as I know the deadline has been shunted along for so long now that April 30 is the absolute deadline.  I dont think there will be a further proroga or a mode to stall the Agenzia dell'entrate - after all its easy money for the govt and they want all they can get at the moment.  Even at this late stage there is no reason why buildings could not be catasto'd by the end ofthe month if you have a geometra who gets his skates on.... Ill check on it though, I may well be completely wrong... 

Dear Ram,could you be kind enough to help me dove a problem?the land registry value  rendita  of €697,22 doesn't tally with my husband's appointed valuer of €302,00what shall I do?