Hi,  I am attending the rogito

09/05/2016 - 19:06

Hi,  I am attending the rogito next week for small property I purchased in Florence.  The process has been reduced to two parts. I assumed the final meeting would result in certified checks being  paid to the owner , the notaio and another for the property tax.I had planned to bring this with me from Canada  The realestate agent just informed me he isn't clear if the balance paid by check is acceptable to the vendor's Italian bank. I can't imagine doing bank transfers before the date of the Rogito. I can see however the agents fee sent before so it is written  up for the final contract. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks



Hi we had the same situation, but not quite so far to travel (UK) and told the estate agent we would be paying by bankers draft or not at all... Okay you may not want to, or can't, be so blunt, but it was what we considered a lot of money. In the even they accepted the bankers draft and when we got hold of it woe and behold it was made out by a big Italian bank. I half suspect this was on purpose on our banks part as they obviously wanted to know what it was for and details of the person to make it out to, including address. So it might be worth having a word with your bank and asking if it is possible for this to be made out from a bank in Italy, it may well be common to do so?

 We haven't set up a bank in Florence yet , our bank in Canada was able to send a wire transfer a month ago for the initial deposit. It had the details of the name and address of the vendor that you mentioned. I am feeling a little stressed with just a few days left and no instructions from the  estate agent.  Would it be a leap of faith to wire the money to individuals prior to the rogito?  It seems I'm doing the work last minute ,there has been little thought given to the process by the agency.  Thanks again Melanie

Again our agent was exactly the same, it's the way things work here, so you need to get accustomed to it! I don't think I explained how ours worked, we did NOT have an account with the Italian bank the draft was made out against, our UK bank had arranged this either by chance or design. Like I said go in to your Canadian back branch/office and see if they would arrange the same, it may be common practice.

 I can arrange bank drafts from my bank  to pay the vendor and Notary . It may be too that the recipients may have to wait for the checks to be cleared on their end even though they are certified here. This still seems like the option which makes most sense. to me however. 

From the vendors point of view I understand it takes a lot longer for a cheque/draft to be cleared against he Bank of Canada (or Llyods indeed) . What I'm saying is your bank, whatever it may be in Canada, may well be able to arrange for you a draft against an Italian bank e.g. ours was issued by Lloyds, but headed and against something like "The Bank of Milano", it will in any case need to be Euro unless you have ageed otherwise, which I doubt. I very much understand the worry with it only being a week away, ours was a few days before we were leaving England. I just wish we had been told of this possibility as the vendor was more than happy it being in effect to her an Italian bank draft... We certainly would not have wired the money in advance for obvious reasons. A further complication we came up against at the signing was the very fact we had wired the deposit as the Notaio told us he had to put the reference of the payment into the Act papers, lucky for us he accepted our receipt ref from  FX company.

 I have a bank account in euro in Canada. They will wire the funds directly to the Italian bank. This is how I will pay the estate agent before I leave. I'm still waiting for his account details. As far as the larger amount for the balance of the property it seems unusual to wire the vender all that before we even take ownership. Thanks for your input.

 Thanks I plan to do that but we are basically arriving in Italy a day before the rogito. It all seems last minute the estate agent plans to get back to me tomorrow. Does anyone know when the property taxes are paid I assumed it would be at our scedualed meeting .

We paid the taxes direct to the notaio who included them in his bill, we paid this a few days in advance. Keep calm I'm sure all will be okay...  Check with your bank in Canada which bank any draft would be drawn on and if this can be an Italian bank. In the end we thought having the bit of paper (Bankers Draft) in our hand was much less worry as we were responsible for it and in full control...

you will pay the taxes with the notary fee, so you don't need to expect other expenses.
to open a bank account you can take a few days depending on the bank.
I did the same thing for a client from Israel who had your same problem. In 2 days he opened a bank account and transferred his money there the day before the deed.

There is no obligation for a vendor to accept anything other than an Italian cheque.  If they do, they suffer as the cheque must be sent manually to the issuing bank to be cleared which can take 60 days.  It is far easier to pay with an Italian cheque or arrange  a bank transfer in front of the notary and writing the TRN number into the act of sale - for the law on traceability.  

Interesting Modicasa that you update an old post.... Just tell the seller to go to hell if they will not accept your method of payment. Obviously it' would be best to have the method in the initial agreement, but lacking the sellers preferennce I doubt they have  leg to stand on - it's a buyers market? A bank transfer in front of the Notary, is that before the vendor signs...

This is one area of the buying process that we and many others we have spoken to (and read of) that can bite you in one way or another. So I think it’s important it’s discussed so others can judge what’s best for them in their circumstances.I can see why any vendor would think twice about accepting a cheque made out to a foreign bank. If I was selling a house in the UK I would not want to hand over the keys for a cheque (or draft) from the “Bank of Russia” The fact it could take 60 days to clear would of course be a further issue, but in some respects the vendors problem not the buyers. The UK example is probably a bad one as the process there is a lot less hassle and to my mind much safer. There you pay your cash over into a solicitors client account and on an agreed date the money and house exchanged is completed. In Italy there is no such process that I’m aware of or indeed such a trust of the system. There lies the problem for most buyers like us, we assume (stupidly I know) that such accepted financial arrangements must be the same in all countries. I think most of these I know of come from countries such as the UK, USA and Canada. These people in particular should NOT assume the payment process is simple and sort it out prior to any contract to buy or even before making an offer.Opening an Italian bank account may be seen by many as a simple solution, but “Joe public” coming from the USA, Canada or the likes would likely be very cautious about being able to negotiate the Italian banking system in what might be a small buying window. More so they would likely be concerned about putting such a large sum in to such an account where it may languish during the buying process, and in some case may even have to be withdrawn.I’m not too sure how many banks in this day and age of financial regulation will allow a bank transfer for sums you needed to purchase a house. So for many a bankers draft will be the most secure and easy option. It’s something you take care of until you sign and then hand over to the vendor. Like I’ve said I can see why it would be preferred to have such drawn against a bank in the country of sale and of course in the currency of that said country (now that may well be the law). Note drawn against such a bank does not mean you need an account with the said bank, your US, Canadian or UK bank simply arrange that with their partner or where they have such an account in the country of purchase. It would be good for future buyers if perhaps Modicasa could advise if it is now more common to simply transfer the final payment and even better if he knows how the procedure is put into place by buyers he has dealt with recently?

Unfortunately it isnt just the Bank of russia type of cheque which presents problems.  One of the major Italian banks now advises all clients not to scan and email any cheque, as if the account it hacked you can end up with somebody cashing your cheque before you get to the bank.  Alot depends on thenotaio you use.  Some insist on doing things in the old mannerwith cheques, and wont countenance anything else.  Notaio's who are more used to foreign buyers are getting familiar with bank transfers.   You can pay by bank transfer before, during or after the act of sale, but everything is dependent on the vendor being agreeable.   What is important is that the method of payment is written in detail into the atto itself.  The notaio can quite easily insert a line which says that the sum will be paid/received within 5 days (for example), but many dont like this.   The risk is for the seller.  For the buyer the risk is paying before the atto.  If you have a wonderful bank manager who will sit on the phone with you there is nothing to stop you paying at the moment of the atto - but you need an understanding notaio (with email) who will then insert the transaction number into the text before it is signed.   There is also nothing to stop you paying in different currencies, as long as the euro equivalent is agreed.  However, to reiterate, it is a process that requires agreement from all parties - a buyer cannot just dictate his terms.  if the vendor has everything explained to him, they are usually fine about it.   For example I am doing an act this afternoon which has half the money being paid from Krona to sterling with a euro equivalent as a bank transfer, and half as a bankers draft from an italian bank.  As long as everything is written into the act of sale and the traceability of all the funds is clear, there is no problem - but to repeat - you need a notary who is up to speed.  The problematic atti have been those with foreign bankers drafts - the time for clearance, and the possiblity of counterfeits, as well as complete incomprehension on the part of the seller makes them so.    If you can get a bankers draft from an italian bank, all the better.  However, if there is a mortgage to extinguish at the moment of the atto, then this is not a permissibile solution, and it must be an Italian issuing bank.  

Hello everyone,  Thank you for all the replies. As it turned out I was notified by estate agent that the vendor would accept only an Italian check or bank transfer. This was with less than a week left. I chose to do a bank transfer rather than risk trying to open up an account the day befor the Atto. Little did I know that the bank transfer could take up to 5 days to process!  I informed the Notaio in case he could speed things up at his bank. Happily it arrived in two days and everything worked out.The only other surprise was a 500 euro fee for the bank to accept the transfer and for the individual checks to be made.  I'm not sure if the process was confusing and last minute because the agency wasn't accustomed to a foriegn buyer but it seemed I was the one worrying and doing all the emailing. Having purchased homes here in Canada in contrast someone basically holds your hand and directs you every step of the way. As I said everything worked out and the very formal Atto with the vendor was a great experience.