I purchased a property with my mother

lynsey_bartlett@hotmail.com Image
09/25/2019 - 15:41

I purchased a property with my mother about 10 years ago.  We are now in the process of selling the property but it is a catalogue of epic hoop jumping and I need to clarify a few things.1) Deads are in mine and my mums names only.  However because it was noted we were both married the notary is saying a POA is required from said husbands.  I am now divorced and I provided court papers that indicated the he had no interest in the Italian property as part of the financial settlement .  All was ok for a few weeks then we were told this was not acceptable and I had to locate my ex and ask for a POA - not a good thing to have to do for anyone. QUESTION - Was the POA from my ex husband required?  2) My father who was married to my mum has passed away and so we sent an original death certificate.  Everything seemed fine for a few weeks then they said because my brother registered my dads death they needed a copy of his passport.  We sent a scanned copy but my brother was not happy about this as he has no interest in the property at all.  My parents will was simple - it goes in trust to the surviving spouse,  so there is no eldest son heir ancient issues. The only knowledge to the Italians that my brother existed was on my dads death certificate.  They wouldnt of knowing he existed other than this.QUESTION - Should the passport have been requested?  3)Italian Notary still not happy, this is the concerning "hoop"  they are now saying that my brother requires a Codice Fiscale.  Why would he need one yet they havent requested one for my ex husband and he is noted as my husband on offical Italian documents.  My brother isnt noted on ANY Italian documents and he has no interest or call on the property.  We are concerned that they are requesting a creation of a tax code for someone who has no property  or financial interest in Italy.  My brother is not happy about proceeding with this and we fear we will loose our sale and never be able to sell the property becaue of all these ridiculous requests.QUESTION: Shoul a Codice Fiscale for someone not noted on any documents be required to sell a property?Please help !Thanks



Unfortunately you will need to wait for one of the 2 very nice experienced, helpful house agents we have on here; Modi or Ugo. However I suspect most of your problems are likely linked to however both of your marital status was declared on the deeds. It may be helpful to have a look and let them know what was entered therein.

The deeds note  "in commune dei beni"  but my decree absolute and financial settlement finalises all this.  However this isnt the real issue because my ex husband has organised POA.   The real issue is regarding the request for my brother to get a Codice Fiscale - he isnt noted anywhere on any Italian documents

My mum was married at the time but my dad has since passed away .  My brother has nothing to do with the property and isn’t noted in any Italian documents ,  the only thing his name is on is my dads death cert and we sent that to show my dads death.  We don’t understand why my brother has to be involved  and why a codice fiscale is needed for him .  He has no interest in the property and to be fair doesn’t want any part of this because he fears possible tax implications 

If the property was purchased in common with the property, and one of the two participants is still alive, and there are no living children, the property goes to the surviving participant - If instead there are heirs, the surviving participant is entitled to his half pro rata undivided (that is, the quantity is half of the value to be defined, with an estimate), and the other half in charge of the deceased, goes to the children, in equal parts, (always for the undivided share), with the usufruct in favor of the surviving participant -Once the formula has been identified, it is necessary to put it into practice!

Yes.  You were both married when you bought, so 50% of the properties were automatically your spouses - unless you provided proof that you were in separazione dei beni.   Wit your fathers death you have a UK will, but that would have to be published in Italy to avoid the Italian succession law, whereby the property goes to the surviving spouse and the children in varying percentages. Notwithstanding the fact that your exhusband has no part of the property inthe divorce papers, he is still an owner, and therefore you need a POA from him to sell.  With the succession your brother is a part owner and therefore will need a codice fiscale.  The notary is right, im afraid.  

action number one - all the actors of the affair must have an Italian tax identification document - Exactly the Fiscal Code, which, can be requested and obtained by anyone, and is valid for one year. If after one year from the release it is not used in any action in the Italian territory, it cancels itself. The tax code can be requested at any Italian consulate or at any revenue office in Italy - just a photocopy of the passport, for non-EU citizens, or an identity card for EU citizens - the document to obtain it, you can also download it from here> https://www.lifeinitaly.it./documenti/codicefiscale.pdf

Action number two, a declaration of succession must be presented in ITALY, because the property is located in Italy, regardless of the fact that the owners live, or were born in any country in the world. The Notary is a valid legal entity, to present, a declaration of succession in Italy - And with this identify all heirs, entitled, under any title, according to Italian law, on real estate, placed on Italian soil. 

Action number three, Once identified the heirs, it is necessary to measure them all around a table - if not really physical, at least telematically, and to make them express about their will, regarding the good, ITALIAN, in whose possession, even partially, they have entered . It would be a good thing that the result of this meeting was WRITTEN, by an Italian lawyer, who is well acquainted with the Italian laws on succession, namely a notary.

Action number five - Proceed to the distribution, based on the agreement reached.Any other approach, with uncoordinated actions, will lead to an inevitable, wasteful and useless expenditure of energy and money.And to a result, certainly negative   

I have to be honest, you are lucky to have found a serious and widespread notary in your research and in your work.

1) Yes, to have the certainty that in the future will not make use of some action and claim quotas of the house or of the money that will derive from the sale;
2) The property is divided into quotas between the direct heirs (the family), therefore it will be registered (unless otherwise written in will) with the wife and the 2 CHILDREN, according to the Italian law;
3) Your EX husband, as such has no right to anything, your brother, being a direct heir, SI.

If the real estate agent who follows you in the sale, knows how to do his job, surely he will make the buyer understand that the delays are due to these reasons and no problems will arise.

Good luck.