Hi  We are interested in buying a

04/06/2019 - 03:17

Hi  Does anyone have recommendations for Italian registered lawyers based in the UK?  We are in the North East of England but can travel.  We are interested in buying a house but are concerned that we get the legal side right on both the taxation side and the house purchase side.Thank you 



Can't really help, but would suggest you consider looking for an English speaking solicitor in the area you are looking to buy as they are more likely to have local information of value. A local recommendation would be best, but PagineGiale here might help. We emailed at random for a Notaio, got no reply from most, but our eventual choice was from doing so and turned out great.

Thanks Steve.  I think from your username our home regions might be close!The one lawyer (based in London, weekly column in monthly Italian publication) we've been in contact with is qualified in Italy and the UK, we've had a quote from them but wanted to get more quotes before we started.  We wanted someone with a good knowledge of English law because of the personal taxation side and the fact that we have income from outside of the UK and Europe and want to make sure we don't fall into being taxed by the Italian authorities.And to make sure we are non-resident we also plan to stay only 5 months, 3 weeks and some days to ensure we don't fall into the living in Italy for 6 months and over category.

From Italian tax officehttp://www.lifeinitaly.it/documenti/revenueoffice-eng.pdfFrom Italian Notary associationhttps://www.notariato.it/en/casa/fiscal-implicationsconvenctions to avoid double taxationhttp://www.finanze.gov.it/export/sites/finanze/it/.content/Documenti/dipartimento_pol_fisc/uk-en.pdf

Many of my clients ,have obtained the Elective Residence in Italy, ( Elective Residence DO NOT ALLOW PRODUCE INCOME IN ITALY and DO NOT REQUIRE PAYMENTS ON INCOME PRODUCT OUTSIDE THE ITALY )  there are great savings, both on the purchase taxes (from 9% to 2%) and on the annual property taxes (they are not paid) -http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Inglese/italyresidenceguide.htmIf you want you can exchange your thoughts with them, click on their name in blue Here >  http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Testimonial/index.php

In reply to by Ugo

Hmm thanks Ugo the Elective Residency Visa looks very interesting.We were getting caught up in decisions between prima and seconda casa (seconda casa equals an additional €10,000 on top of other fees and taxes).We are not intending to stay more than 6 months each year so that we are not considered 'residents' and so won't need to pay Italian taxes.But possibly the Elective Residency might allow us to claim Prima Casa.  This will be our first and only property in Italy.

Best of luck finding answers, read as much as you can! In the end I think you will find only you can decide as the so called professionals, especially on tax, never seem to be too sure and often you have no come back if they get it wrong! The horrid convention here between the two is the de facto information if you have not looked at it.Yes, Monkseaton (West of course) is not a name you come across too much! We still have family in the area, but in the UK we are located further south these days...

Hi Teolo18 ,here is an interesting information for you, from the Italian state police website, I'm sorry it's only in Italian, I tried to do a translation with google traslator, and the result is acceptable, so you can do it yourselfhttps://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/17985b2d0db2288ab785808552it is clearly written that an EU citizen, and therefore also an English one - at least until there is the brexit (we hope never) - can enter and remain in Italy, without any particular permission, for a maximum period of 3 months (180 days ) If you want to stay for a longer period, you must obtain the Residence, in particular for the Residence that is given without a work contract (precisely the Electoral Residence) must prove to have sufficient financial means, to live in Italy and a healt insurance, for all his needs, so as not to have to be maintained and cared for at the expense of the Italian stateThe above info, means that if you want to live in Italy for 6 months, you must obtain the Residence.The Elective residence, once obtained, is valid for one year, at the end of the first year, you will have to return to the offices of the municipality, with a document showing that you have renewed the haelt insurance, and the municipality will give you a valid residence two years . At the end of the two years, again, you return to the municipality and ask for a renewal, always with the renewal of the healt surance, and obtain residence for 3 years, after the three years, with the same procedure you will get a residence for five years. When you reach the age of five, you can obtain residency without a term, or if you wish, citizenship too.Clearly when you have the ACTIVE Elective residence, even if the UK obtains the Brexit, no one will take away the right to renew your Elective Residence. I have some US customers, who have been in Italy for over 8 years, without any problems.Clearly when you have the ACTIVE Elective residence, even if the UK obtains the Brexit, no one will take away the right to renew your Elective Residence. I have some EU and US customers, for whom I have obtained the Elective Residence for over 8 years, who continue to have renewals, without any problem.You can read , his blog , here > https://www.salcimeurope.com/I remain at your disposal for any further information, even from the web site

Remember "And to make sure we are non-resident we also plan to stay only 5 months, 3 weeks and some days to ensure we don't fall into the living in Italy for 6 months and over category."[I assume you are if you are staying that long you will almost certainly need a car]Remember that if you cut it that fine, and are driving to/from the UK,then if you are out of the UK for 6 months or more, in theory you cease to be eligible for NHS treatment until you have been back in the UK for 6 months.  I know the rule isn't rigidly applied [yet] by hospitals etc, but it may well be tightened up soon

In reply to by alan h

[I assume you are if you are staying that long you will almost certainly need a car]a car in italy with italian plate - does not prevent you from having a car in the UK !it seems really strange to me that if you don't drive your car in the UK, for six months, you lose the rights to drive it, for the following months - I have customers with cars registered in their name both in Italy and in the UK, and I do not know that no one is removed the possibility that you say - (what will happen after the brexit I do not know) I can also assure you that now that the UK is in the EU, if the UK insurer issues a certificate of good driving behavior each Italian insurer is obliged to apply the same level of Bonus / Malus in Italy 

Ugo.I was probably less than clear in what I wrote.The reference to a car was because I assumed that they would drive down in their UK car if they were staying in Italy for that length of time so travel times needs to be considered when staying out of the uKWhat you lose by being out of the UK for 6 months is the right to free treatment from the UK National Health Service.  Once lost, you have to be resident in the UK for 6 months before you regain eligibilty. Alan

In reply to by alan h

Hi Alan  no we've done plenty of trips in a UK car in Italy but now if the house sale goes ahead was thinking of buying a LHD car to use out there.  Easier to get around and easier to blend in.

Government holds the information [Pasport Control].  Also, if you attend hospital for treatment you are supposed to confirm that you have not been out of the  UK for more than 6 months in the last year. Also, some people have been reported by 'nosey neighbours'. I must add that it is not a common problem, lots of hospitals can't be bothered to chase things up, but it would be unfortunate if it actually happened to somebody.I know of several retired UK ex-pats [in Spain] who fly back to the UK every 5 months and 3 weeks and 'live' at a UK address [usually in one of their children's homes] to keep their qualification to NHS treatment 

Well of course Sherlok was English!AlanIn Italy it sometimes happens that suddenly the state realizes that it is paying pensions to people who are over 150 years old at the registry office :)And Modi, here, knows well that in his Island, many houses are owned by emigrated people, no one knows where, even in the 1800sHowever, to my knowledge, 90% of non-Italians with La Residenza Elettiva in Italy do not stop in their Italian homes, for periods longer than 15, rarely 30 days at a time -

Alan .youst for you :)https://www.ilmessaggero.it/italia/citta_di_castello_morta_da_5_anni_vedovo_e_nuora_incassano_la_sua_pensione-4421031.html 

 The notary, first of all checks the history of possession of the previous twenty years - (twenty-year account) to see if there are problems in the previous deeds, for example a passage of irregular property, a constraint that has not been regularly transcribed, a division between two or more owners that does not appear in the subsequent documents - Then check that the plan presented for the transfer of the property is the same as the one deposited in the land register (compliance check - if negative it asks the building licenses with which the differences have been authorized , the payment of the amnesties - if they are not there - the act cannot be done), then it checks if building permits have been issued since 1967 onwards (if there are, it asks for copies and checks that all payments are regular - if the deed is void), then check that the taxes on the property have been paid regularly (the taxes follow the property - if not paid they fall on the property buyer), then checks the documentation on the regularity of the heating, plumbing and electrical systems (if the declaration is missing, the deed cannot be carried out), in the case of land it also asks if there are neighbors who are entitled to pre-emption, if the seller does not declare them (mendacious declaration), the act is null - If the confined person has decided that he does not want to exercise the right of pre-emption, the seller has two possibilities, to sell, to present at the signing of the sale a registered letter received from the neighbor, in which the same declares to renounce the pre-emption - or a copy of the registered letter sent to the neighbor where the value and date of the sale are declared - the seller has 90 days to declare his will, after which he loses the right - Then he asks for a document issued from the municipality where the building and geological constraints are listed, on the land to be sold (even if it is a few meters around to the house) - finally check that there are no mortgages, active. If the mortgages are inactive, the notary asks the person who gave them the consent to the cancellation and makes the cancellation, with costs to be paid by the seller - if the mortgages are active he asks the bank for the exact amount of the sums that must be paid for to obtain the consent to the cancellation and at the time of the signing of the sale asks the seller for the receipt received from the bank for the payment made, or the IBAN on which he must pay the sum requested for the cancellation consent - obtained the consent, as above it provides for the cancellation of the mortgage paid by the seller -After the stipulation, he asks the buyer to pay the fees necessary to register the deed in his hands - and of course his feeAt about 10 days from the signing of the deed - the notary delivers to the buyer, the receipt of the transfer of taxes to the state - and to both seller and buyer - a certified copy of the deed of sale.errors and omissions excepted

First of all, if a real estate agent is involved, he is responsible for doing this research because it is his job -The notary, for his part, knows the names of the neighbors, because having done the cadastral survey, he knows on behalf of whom they are registering the particles of land that border on those for sale. He, in the absence of reliable data, on the rights of the neighbors, connects electronically, to the site of the revenue agency, or to that of the INPS (National Social Security Institute = sickness and pensions assistance), and asks for a certification which results if the neighbors are registered as direct farmers or as main agricultural entrepreneurs - Only these two categories have the right to agrarian pre-emption - Furthermore this right lapses with the completion of the retirement age, which in Italy is the 65th birthdayMore info , here > http://www.lifeinitaly.it/documenti/Prelazione-Agraria.pdfSorry , in Italian , onlyThere are also some tricks, normally in use, to prevent the neighbor from exercising his right of first refusalthe first, to avoid preemption on the land surrounding the walls of the urban buildings for sale, consists in registering up to 5000 square meters (maximum) of land, around the buildings themselves - if the buildings are more than one, you could stack it on the urban land register independently of each other and surround each of them with 5000 square meters (certainly if possible)the second is to create a corrido, of a suitable width - perhaps a road! , between the land to be purchased and the neighboring one, and, with a rental contract registered in parallel with that of sale, rent this land to the purchaser, who will purchase it after at least two years, by asserting its right to the tenant (which exceeds the neighboring one)