Mark D, if in the rental…Submitted by Ugo on Tue, 08/11/2020 - 20:17
if in the rental contract it is written that <The rent is a fixed amount per month plus a contribution of 200 EUR per month for condominium expenses.>
it means that you have to pay both the rent and the condominium expenses -
Remove from the requested amount the 200 euros for condominium expenses - if the result is equal to the monthly rent - the bank request is correct and to be paid in total
Thanks for your reply. The…Submitted by Mark D on Wed, 08/12/2020 - 02:12
In reply to Mark D, if in the rental… by Ugo
Thanks for your reply. The contract says:
"Il canone annuo di locazione, secondo quanto stabilito dall'Accordo territoriale tra le organizzazioni APPE – Confedilizia – Asppi e Sunia – Sicet- Uniat, depositato il 13 giugno 2017 presso il Comune di Bergamo, è convenuto in euro 9.600, che i conduttori si obbligano a corrispondere nel domicilio del locatore ovvero a mezzo di bonifico bancario, in 12 rate mensili eguali anticipate di euro 800,00 ciascuna entro il primo del mese."
"Per gli oneri accessori le parti fanno applicazione della Tabella oneri accessori, allegato D al decreto emanato dal Ministro delle infrastrutture e dei trasporti di concerto con il Ministro dell’economia e delle finanze ai sensi dell’articolo 4, comma 2, della legge n. 431/1998 e di cui il presente contratto costituisce l’allegato A. In sede di consuntivo, il pagamento degli oneri anzidetti, per la quota parte di quelli condominiali/comuni a carico del conduttore, deve avvenire entro sessanta giorni dalla richiesta. Prima di effettuare il pagamento, il conduttore ha diritto di ottenere l’indicazione specifica delle spese anzidette e dei criteri di ripartizione. Ha inoltre diritto di prendere visione – anche tramite organizzazioni sindacali – presso il locatore (o il suo amministratore o l’amministratore condominiale, ove esistente, dei documenti giustificativi delle spese effettuate. Insieme con il pagamento della prima rata del canone annuale, il conduttore versa una quota di acconto non superiore a quella di sua spettanza risultante dal rendiconto dell’anno precedente. Per le spese di cui al presente articolo i conduttori versano una quota mensile di euro 200,00 (duecento/00) salvo conguaglio."
We pay 800 EUR + 200 EUR = 1,000 EUR per month to the landlord.
We have not received an invoice from the bank, just a payment slip, which has RIC 23139 ES 2020/2021 (RATA NR. 1 UI 125 EUR 985) on it.
Mark D bank do not issue the…Submitted by Ugo on Wed, 08/12/2020 - 03:11
bank do not issue the INVOICE - bank only give you payment remember
To have invoice , in Italy , you has to have Partita IVA = VAT NUMBER - for have it , you has to have a FIRM . Maybe you can receive payment remember from service supplier , for electricity , water ,gas , phone line ...etc .
Londlors do not give you payment remember each months , on the rent contract is writted that you has to pay rent , each month -
it's you who must remember to pay -
you probably gave the homeowner the details of your bank current account, which he communicated to his bank, which, according to the interbank payment procedure called SEPA (form that you should have signed) - made a request, to your bank to withdraw from your bank account, every month, the sum of the rent + condominium charges.
In the contract it is also written <Insieme con il pagamento della prima rata del canone annuale, il conduttore versa una quota di acconto non superiore a quella di sua spettanza risultante dal rendiconto dell’anno precedente. Per le spese di cui al presente articolo i conduttori versano una quota mensile di euro 200,00 (duecento/00) salvo conguaglio>
= Together with the payment of the first installment of the annual fee, the tenant pays a deposit not exceeding that due to him resulting from the previous year's report. For the expenses referred to in this article, the tenants pay a monthly fee of € 200.00 (two hundred / 00), subject to adjustment -
no one supported you when you signed the rental contract and explained, in your language, what did you sign?
The estate agent was very…Submitted by Mark D on Wed, 08/12/2020 - 03:27
In reply to Mark D bank do not issue the… by Ugo
The estate agent was very good and made an attempt to explain everything in every section. My Italian is OK however the contract contains technical terms with which I am not familiar.
I came away with the understanding that the condominial expenses were 200 EUR per month (I think the advertisement for the property said exactly that, I have a picture of the page somewhere) which covers water, heating, the porter, property maintenance etc.
We pay the rent of 800 EUR per month + the condo expenses of 200 EUR per month = 1,000 EUR per month to the landlord by bank transfer each month.
Neither UBI Banca nor the landlord have our bank details. There is a section on the payment slip from UBI Banca which I can complete if I want the money to be taken out of my bank account automatically.
So we pay 2,400 EUR per year to the landlord for le spese condominiali already.
As we are not the owners of the apartment I do not understand why this bill has arrived addressed to us.
Mark d, in this case, you…Submitted by Ugo on Wed, 08/12/2020 - 03:50
in this case, you should SEND AN EMAIL IMMEDIATELY - to your bank - MAYBE TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE AGENCY WHERE YOU OPEN THE BANK ACCOUNT - WITH URGENT WRITING!, and ask for information - personal bank details, they are not public -
before sending the email - that is, NOW !! I recommend that you change the password to access your current account -
The plot thickens…Submitted by Mark D on Fri, 08/14/2020 - 08:01
The plot thickens..
Apparently the tenant is responsible for paying the charges, but the accountability lies with the landlord. Which is mad :)
So we have a bill for 975 EUR for the condominium expenses.
However so far we've already paid 1,200 EUR (200 EUR per month) to the landlord for the condominium expenses as set out in the contract.
So am I right to assume that the landlord knows when this falls due and pays "our" bill; that this is how these things normally work and that way she knows that it gets paid?
As the landlord is the one held accountable for making sure it's paid, which is presumably why she has asked us to pay these expenses to her monthly (2,400 EUR per year in addition to the rent which I guess includes both this 975 EUR and other costs like the central heating) so that she can do exactly that.
Mark, sorry, but instead of…Submitted by Ugo on Fri, 08/14/2020 - 11:24
Yes, it is, but I don't want…Submitted by Mark D on Mon, 08/17/2020 - 04:27
Yes, it is, but I don't want to ask "Do we need to pay this" since:
1. We are paying this monthly - all property listings of apartments for rent, like ours, include a figure for spese condominiale and what puzzles me is why the landlord collects this each month when it's the tenant that receives the bill. I can only imagine that it is to make sure it is paid because the landlord is the one actually accountable for making sure that happens.
2. The landlord might think "I'll just say yes. That way I get 2,400 EUR per year, and I get to keep most or all of that for myself. They can pay twice".
We have asked around and some friends have the identical situation. They receive the bill, but because like us they pay the landlord monthly they ignore the bill and it is paid by the landlord. This is how I imagined it must work.
The weird thing is that the bill is sent to the tenants, who are not accountable: it is the landlord that is accountable. This makes no sense at all to me but seems to be how things work.