IMU declaration

11/20/2012 - 08:20

I just saw today that just paying the IMU is not enough but we have to do an 'Imposta Municipale Propria - Dichiarazione per l'anno 2012'. Which is a declaration of your interest in the property.The deadline at the moment is 1st Jan 2013 but I believe this may be put back to 1st February 2013. It seems that you only need to complete it of the house is not your main residence or meets some other requirements that result in you getting a reduction in the IMU. There are full instructions here: instructions and the form is here.



Just pasting info from my Comune on this subjec. I wonder if this sheds any light? DICHIARAZIONE IMU    I contribuenti devono dichiarare gli immobili posseduti nel territorio del Comune, tramite apposito modello ministeriale entro 90 (novanta) giorni dalla data in cui il possesso degli immobili ha avuto inizio o sono intervenute variazioni rilevanti ai fini della determinazione dell’imposta. I contribuenti che hanno già assolto all'obbligo in materia ICI, non sono tenuti a presentare una nuova dichiarazione per gli immobili già dichiarati.. Per gli immobili per i quali l’obbligo dichiarativo è sorto dal 1.01.2012 , la dichiarazione deve essere presentata entro il 30.09.2012.  Non deve essere presentata dichiarazione nel caso in cui le variazioni dipendono da atti di trasferimento di proprietà o atti di cessione o costituzione di diritti reali per i quali i notai utilizzano obbligatoriamente il Modello Unico Informatico e nel caso di dichiarazione di successione. 

That's very helpful of them! Most small comune have nothing. If you have agricultural land (even if you don't farm it) or claim 50% discount because the house is uninhabitable you have to fill the form in according to the instruction document. Confusing eh?

I think its something else - the comune want to you to declare what you own within 90 days of becoming owner - and if it differs from what it results as at catasto - so they can charge you the right amount of IMU - so if you buy a house and then double it, you must declare the new square metrage within 90 days so your taxes can be calculated accordingly.  If you've already declared what you own for ICI (ie up until this year) or you own something due to an act of sale or a donation or a succession, then it will already be at the catasto and you dont have to do anything.  Its whether youve got something by a carta privata, or in an unofficial capacity like a comodato d'uso...  I wouldnt worry unduly.

In the instructions it says you have to complete the form if you benefit from a reduction in the IMU - e.g. for farming land. You don't have to fill it in if you get an exemption (eg. fabbricati strumentale al uso agricolo). I am guessing because you need to fill in a form declaring it's use. Our geometra just did it for us.

I think that this confirms what a local geometra told my husband, that they were trying to update the "catasto" because, as from next year, taxes will be calculated on the habitable area of the house, instead of the built area. As we updated everything about a couple of years ago, we have nothing to worry. Actually, we may end up paying less as our walls are more than 70cm thick!!!! 

Penny Im not clear on that.  Farming land per se, brings no reduction.  You pay or you dont pay depending on your comune.  If you are an azienda/Cd you are exempt or you pay on Reddito agrario.  If not you pay on Redditio Domenicale.  

No - not if it is your main residence. If it is your main residence and you live in it then it doesn't affect you. Sorry - I wasn't very clear. I meant farming land if you are a coltivatore diretto or IAP. We do get a reduction as the multiple is lower. If the land is in a mountain comune or an underpriviledged area then you don't need to pay at all. It is not clear whether in these circumstances you still need to fill out the form. Some comune are giving extra discounts too so i guess if you want one of these then you may need to fill it out. I can't cut and paste from the document as it is protected but it is on page 3 if you want to look. It says the circumstances where the declaration has to be presented are:

  • Gli immobili godono di riduzione dell'imposta
  • Il comune non e' comunque in possesso delle informazione necessarie per verificare il corretto adempimento dell'obligazione tributaria

It then goes on to list the specific circumstances. Not many people would fall into the second category I wouldn't have thought, unless you are renting your property to a tenant but any of us farmers must declare the land but not any 'fabbricati ad uso strumentale'. We are in a mountain comune so don't have to pay on our land so I'll have to check if they still want the form or not as it doesn't say in the instructions. It is not very clear either if you bought your house using prima casa tax reduction but don't actually live there. Do you fill it in or not? If you are applying the letter of the law then you would fall under the second category as the comune would not be aware that it was not your main home but I guess that could open a whole can of other worms.....

If you dont live in your prima casa, then you should technically rescind your prima casa status - at least if you let it - otherwise the Agenzia dell'Entrate will get you.  If you just dont live in it, but live in, say, your OH's prima casa - then thats ok except that with IMU you cant have 2 prima case in the same comune.  

In reply to by Ram

hi ram, that is why so many italians have separazione dei beni ie. the things, houses and whatever else are not considered divided between husband and wife but each their my neighbour declares one house as his prima casa his wife a different one and their son another so they've all got a house which results as being their own prima casa in which each has residence whilst in reality they all live together in one of the houses -job done no? it appears that the comune is not bothered as everyone knows all this,of course..

If you rescind your prima casa status - and dont buy/nominate another prima casa within 12 months, then you lose your prima casa agevolazione for ever - technically.    If you mean could they get you because you have a prima casa for a little time before you decide to let it out - then its the same as the capital gain law.  You need to have had residence for more than half the time that you have had the property to be exempt from having to pay back the difference in tax - up to the 3 or 5 year limit.   It all sounds a bit drastic, but it does depend on how you let your house - you will be fine with a holiday let.  Rent out your prima casa on a 4x4 and they will get you. 

In reply to by Ram

... for the information. My query on this was more to do with the scenario where 2-3 years after buying someone decides residency in Italy is not worthwhile.... Think someone actually asked this question when the queries on IVIE came up i.e. "they've moved the goal posts I'm moving back to the UK", not necessarily selling or renting their home here, simply changing where they are resident. For some people who have already bought or are about to buy this could impact their decision to stay and/or buy... smiley

I have always understood that you needed to have had residency for 5 years before you could rescind without paying back the tax saving for prima casa. Also that if you rescinded within 5 years, you would pay a penalty in addition to the tax (similar to the case where you fail to achieve residency within 18 months). Having said which, I can't find any reference to that anywhere (!) so it may just be one of those "I have always understood........." things. Hopefully someone can enlighten us? TK

I was told exactly what RAM has described above. However, I have had lots of people tell me that it's wrong and that you have to have owned it for 5 years. I even know people who have gone and bought another house because they swore this was true so I will be very interested to know 'once and for all'.

5 years for a second home, not for prima casa.    If you buy with prima casa agevolazione, you can sell when you like and not pay plusvalenza provided you have been resident for one day more than half the time you have owned the property.  You then need to buy another prima casa within 12 months or you lose your agevolazione for good. 

No its not a problem, you go down to the anagrafe and tell them you're emigrating again.  Your house becomes a second home and everything as before you arrived.    If you dont sell, nothing changes.  

... thank you again Ram, hopefully we will never have to go down that route, but you never know... Thought they would have some time limit on this and you would get hit with the difference in purchase tax if you became none resident in such a short time....

 Thanks for asking the question stevgwmonkseaton...we have similar queries as having bought our place as a 'Prima Casa' with the intention of renovating and living in Italy full time from the '18 month' period given to us in our purchase contract, my partner's job could well end up being in another country. I am therefore wondering what will happen to us in terms of purchase taxes if I've only been resident in Italy for a year or two and then join him wherever he gets posted? It's particularly important in our case because the house was classed 'collabenti' (derelict) which meant we paid purchase taxes based on the full purchase price not the lower catastal value and it'll be unbelievably financially painful if we have to find the difference in the differing % of purchase taxes for a 'non- resident'. So to be clear RAM, if I take up residence next March as is the plan,  and our little one starts at the village school for a year, but then we may decide to live wherever my partner is posted (likely 4 year posting) we wouldn't be persued for the difference between the non-resident purchase taxes but would obviously have to pay the different IMU etc for the house being classed as seconda casa? In addition does anyone know if there is a 'cut off' point at which, if a property has been given a catastal value which it didn't have at point of purchase, you could go back to the tax office and ask for a re-evaluation fo the purchase taxes. I have heard of this happening but am hazy and haven't heard about it from anyone with firsthand experience...

 "thank you again Ram, hopefully we will never have to go down that route, but you never know... Thought they would have some time limit on this and you would get hit with the difference in purchase tax if you became none resident in such a short time...." There does still seem a bit of confusion here - I think we're agreed that the required period of residency is 5 years. Do we agree that if you rescind within the 5 years you do have to pay back the difference in IVA? Do we also know whether there is a penalty, or do they just accept your circumstances have changed and that you need to rescind your residency, and backcharge the tax break as if your house was always seconda casa? TK

  Is it accepted then what Ram has said is correct or is the answer not known? Would a notaio be the best person to answer this question? I'm just thinking that this would be possibly a major factor for anyone buying now or in the future regards contingency planning , after all no one knows what or how their circumstances might change.

  Sorry, tried to but can't link to a pdf of a ruling, (not all of which is relevant to this discussion), and which dates from 2007/2009. If you want to read it the title from the Agenzie delle Entrate site is: RISOLUZIONE N. 213/E Roma, 08 agosto 2007   The paragraph which is relevant to this discussion is at the bottom of page 3 (concerning whether you have to pay back prima casa agevolazioni).   (Also a paragraph on page 4 quoting l'art.67, comma 1, lett. b), del D.P.R. n. 917, del 1986 (T.U.I.R) concerning plusvalenza.)   Now, it seems to me we are all agreed that plusvalenza (CGT) does not enter if you sell a prima casa in which you have been living for more than half the time that you have owned the property, (and there is nothing in the document I have linked to which does other than confirm this).   However, as far as a requirement to repay the prima casa agevolazioni, it is crystal clear that the document says that if you SELL your prima casa within five years (without buying another one) then you are liable to repay those reductions (whether discounted IVA or ''puchase taxes'' + sanzioni) - even if you have been living in the house for all the time that you have owned it.   What it doesn't give any guidance on is whether renouncing residency on your prima casa (without selling it) gives rise to any liability to repay the prima casa agevolzioni. I would say it doesn't, because Italians do this every day - either to rent somewhere else or live in their seconda casa. In addition, the only time at which this requirement to pay back would arise would be at an act of sale, when the notaio would pick it up.

OK Ive just been to the notaio and presented him with this conundrum.... there are two factors at play, one is plusvalenza (capital gain) and one is prima casa agevolazione. 1. You buy a prima casa, and take residence but sell it before 5 years:   If you have had residence for more than half the time you have owned the house, there is no plusvalenza.  If you dont buy another prima casa within a year, then technically the Agenzia dell'entrate can come after you to replay the difference in the prima casa ageovolazione you took when you bought.  The AdE has 5 years to do 'accertamenti' on these things.  So, the gamble is 1) that they find you if you've gone back to Blighty and 2) they'll get round to you before the 5 years is up. 2, You buy a prima casa, have residence, change residence before 5 years, but dont sell. - Much more complicated - here it is the definition of prima casa that is at stake.  You have a house, it is still your only house in ITaly so it remains prima casa as far as agevolazione goes, but it is not your prima casa as far as residence goes.  The notaio is going to check with teh AdE but he thinks it actually makes no difference if you dont sell.  Certainly if you just change your residence within Italy.  However, if you then go back to the UK forever, and ditch your Italian residence, it becomes a moot point and you will have to bear with me until the AdE comes back with an answer, but the default - see above - is that nothing changes. 

Fillide and Ram, that's really helpful. Thank you so much. I've been trying to get this information out of our notaio for over a year and am still none the wiser. I think part of the problem is trying to deal in emails in italy... will wait with baited breath for the reply from Ram's notaio. 

Thanks Ram - I thought it may not be as simple as we'd like it to be. If I was the tax man and some British person bought a property as prima casa, saving thousands of €, then immediately rescinded Italian residency so as not to be in the Italian tax system, I would take a dimmish view. I would certainly want the tax saving back, and being a tax man, would want to take advantage of the change of residency by applying a penalty. So I still favour the view that says if that happens within 5 years you will be due to pay, even though you keep the property and continue to spend up to 6 months a year in it.  Will watch this thread with interest to see what your notaio has to say! Terry

I'd agree with you Terry if it were the case that people were always bending the rules deliberately....sometimes though, as with our family, with one of us continually being posted overseas, we would be constantly 'penalised' by countries we had chosen to live in, or would never be able to have the same status as residents anywhere, as we only ever reliably stay in a country for a certain period just because of my partner's job...until retirement. In our case our home in Italy will genuinely be our 'family' home with some jiggery pokery over the next few years until our work situation allows some extended stability!

  “In caso di dichiarazione mendace, o di trasferimento per atto a titolo oneroso o gratuito degli immobili acquistati con i benefici di cui al presente articolo prima del decorso del termine di cinque anni dalla data del loro acquisto, sono dovute le imposte di registro, ipotecaria e catastale nella misura ordinaria, nonchè' una sovrattassa pari al 30 per cento delle stesse imposte.   So, if you mendaciously claimed prima casa, you could be asked to repay the prima casa agevolazione, even without selling the house. I'd think it would be fairly easy for the agenzia to prove mendacity if (particularly) a foreigner behaved as you suggest SirTK - but even with a less clearcut 'tax evading' intention the agenzia does have a bit of wriggle room and you could find yourself in a position of having to prove non mendacity.

In reply to by Fillide

... you've moved  the goal posts, OP's very reason for this question, by the introduction of IVIE, hence they can no longer afford to be resident here.... Based on Terry's (a little smug tax man) answer, this is on a par... smiley

.....that is a very good answer - "I used to be able to afford it but now I can't", clearly showing there was no intention to cheat the system from the start. Hence the taxman can argue that he must consider you never to have been able to be a resident, as your personal circumstances clearly don't allow you to fulfill the terms of residency over the 5 year period under consideration. Which seems to me to be exactly what Rachel's circumstances are, though for reasons of movement rather than affordability. We musn't forget that residency is "granted" rather than simply handed out, and you do have to jump through the odd hoop or two to get it. So I still would guess it's a trade-off between stumping up the IVIE or paying back the prima casa discount, depending on how far short of the 5 years you fall. (While kicking yourself for delaying your residency application for 18 months!). Terry

It would be mendacious if you bought as prima casa without having any intention of taking prima casa, but if you did take residency within the 18 months,  only to move again because of a change of circumstances,  as in Rachel's case - it would hardly count as being mendacious.  At the worst - disorganised! 

Definitely not 'mendatious' and it might seem disorganised but it is what happens to families where one parent works in a job which requires you to be globally mobile and cannot predict when and where the next stop might be! Where we were 'disorganised' and 'naive' was not to understand how precisely the system works...despite several unanswered questions to the notaio etc... it seems we, and our architect/estate agent, were totally ignorant in not realising our purchase taxes would be based on the full (and fully declared I might add!) purchase price and not an assumed much lower catastal value which has made the resident/non-resident thing a much bigger issue for us than for many because the purchase taxes were really high in the first place! We have to start residency any way because the plan is for our child to go to the village school until we know what's next on the horizons...we'll just have to hope it lasts long enough to satisfy the tax office or that they don't chase us if we change country of 'residence' but keep our Italian home (which will be our permanent address)...or that they accept globally mobile EU workers just can't dictate how long they are contracted to work in any given country...All this info' has been really helpful though- thanks to all for your input!

Rachel - you are absolutely right that this should be all part of freedom of movement within the EU - and clearly you are caught in a bind by trying too hard to understand everything which could happen. It won't (necessarily) because if you retain residency in Italy, but happen to be domiciled somewhere else, you do have the 183days a year 'tax' residence to "play" with. (I realise that using the word "play" inevitably implies some fiddling, but that's a misapprehension - it is a rule which is written for genuine cases such as yourself - but exploitable by fiddlers.) I do urge you - it's going to cost a few hundred, maybe into the low thousands - to get advice from a genuine knowledgeable cross border taxation expert. They aren't only there for the evil tax evaders - they earn most of their money from normal honest folk. This chap is good on Italy/UK issues - I don't know if he can cope with pan-european or non EC considerations, but it'd be free to get an answer to that query from him.

Thanks Fillide, I have already spent a few hundred in professional advise. But all it was was advice - not action - and quite frankly nothing that I didn't already know from this forum! And a warning to others...I thought at the time I was paying for a £80 phone call but it ended up being sent an invoice for nearly £300  as the accountant (who will remain anonymous as it may have been my total naivety!) put in his time for reading my email outlining our situation! I had thought an accountant understanding one's circumstances night have been the free bit and then one would pay for work if you felt they showed an understanding of your circumstances and offered to do what was needed to put you on the right track! Even yesterday I heard back from an Italian commercialista telling me council tax was an 'allowed deductable' from IVIE which goes against 50% of what others have said is the case! I think as soon as my plans have shaped up more definitively I'll just have to go to someone at that point! What I realise is that you can pay £100's for just an opinion which has about a 50% chance of being correct. At the end of a first phase of a year's renovating every € has to be carefully considered! 

In reply to by Ram

  Dear Ram, I wondered whether you'd got a reply from your notary? - You were going to ask your nice notaio the million dollar question...."what happens when one has bought a house with prima casa agevolazione, obtained 'residenza' for a year or two, but then (without selling the house) move to another country where you'd be required to take up residency (thus rescinding Italian residency within five years of purchase)?" Did you get an answer? I finally heard back from my notary on all counts (exactly as you'd suggested)...but she asked whether I really wanted the hassle of Italian residency because her advice was that there was a good chance (she said at least 70%) we'd never get chased for the extra purchase taxes any way! I think we'll have no option because we'll be in the village for at least a year but I would like to rest assured that I didn't have to live in fear of a huge tax demand with 30% fine if my other half gets posted overseas in 2014 and we join him...which would be our choice! I'm going to ask our notary the same question but it can take months for a reply to come! Many thanks

I think you are asking all the right questions. I have had good and bad Italian accountants (more bad than good unfrotunately!). All charged what seems to me an extortionate amount of money - far more than I paid in the UK. However, it is very difficult to get accurate advice and information when you are still in the UK. Once you move here, I would ask around to find a good local Italian accountant who can deal with the Italian side for you. I have had excellent advice from one of the farmer's unions and if I were starting over, the very first thing I would do would be to join one of the Italian unions appropriate to my job and get advice from them. They are very helpful and an awful lot cheaper that employing your own accountant.

The very nice man at the Agenzia dell'Entrate has told me the following....  As long as you dont sell the house, and you did take residency within the 18 month limit, there will be no problem if you have to renounce your residency before the 5 years is up.  If you ever get questions on this, it is enough to get a visura storica of your residence from the anagrafe which shows you were resident in the comune in question at some point.  If you were to sell, that another minestrone....  Hope that helps. 

RAM - yet again you come to the rescue with really helpful advice! Thanks so much. It certainly will lift a whole load of stress of my shoulders knowing whether we are resident for one year or the whole five, as long as we don't sell the property (no intentions of ever doing this so far!) we won't be liable to lose our 3% rate of purchase taxes. Phew...finally I can start enjoying our Dolce Vita!  Many thanks RAM and to all those who've contributed to wading through this issue!

Ram, that's really useful to know. I had thought you needed to have residency for 5 years otherwise you would pay back the tax saving. In other words, no matter how you bought the house, it would be considered seconda casa until you got residency. It certainly was that way for ICI. I'm certainly not intending to sell my little bit of Italian heaven, so it sounds like it's of no account. But residency may no longer be attractive, which is a shame as residency does give a nice feeling of "belonging". Terry