In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The Gotthart pass rather than the tunnel is a lovely route and a good place to stop for a picnic lunch and walk. However, as you only plan to be in Switzerland one way you may feel it is wasting the vignette not to use the tunnel! We have never managed to avoid getting onto a motorway in Switzerland so have always had to buy a vignette (it lasts a year).
Another route is via Austra and the Brenner. It is longer but a good route and it is easy to avoid the motorways and therefore the tolls. The pass itself is very easy but you have to be careful not to be funnelled onto the bridge which costs extra over and above the standard motorway toll badge. There are many guesthouses in pretty locations throughout Austria - but it may be too close to your destination.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Flyingpigs;120560]The Gotthart pass rather than the tunnel is a lovely route and a good place to stop for a picnic lunch and walk. [/quote]
[FONT=Century Gothic]I am trying to convince Mr Mon that we should consider the Gotthart pass when we come down next week but he’s reluctant. Is it really as ‘’scary’’ as everyone makes out :veryconfused:[/FONT]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Not scary at all - been on much worse on 'normal' roads. If you have time do it. Also, sometimes the queues for the tunnel are horrific - keep on the inside lane and you can bypass these and take the turnoff for the pass.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The Gotthard pass is well worth doing. It is not a difficult drive, unless you are either towing or in an old VW camper van. It is a wee bit steep at first [from the Swiss side], but the views from the top are amazing. For a flavour of the views see:-
[url]http://www.gotthardtunnel.eu/images/gotthard-pass.jpg[/url] and [url]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/3120329824_b1d4299239.jpg[/url]
Allow an hour for the pass [plenty of time to stop at the top then]
Also - the Swiss motorway vignette costs £27 You can buy online at [url=http://www.switzerlandtravelcentre.co.uk/vignette.html?gclid=CKegsY2HtJoCFQObFQodnnv5bg]Switzerland Travel Centre.co.uk | Swiss Travel Passes[/url]. This is easier than at the border The vignette is valid for a calendar year, plus the December before and the January afterwards.
,
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
agree with flyingpigs as well on the austria route... the brenner pass gets you down to that side of Italy without having to traverse some of the major italian traffic blocks,,,
i also used to branch off the southern Germany area...rather than take the motorway via munich... head down towards the fern pass and or take the achansee turning off after munich... the lake is pretty...good hotels and you then pass down to innsbruck and then up the brener...
the other route is to go down past the fairy tale castle of Neuschwanstein ... king Ludwig's place ...
in fact its a pretty limitless choice as the road down via salzburg...say stopping there would take you out near venice... and there are some pretty spectacular lakes to visit around salzburg... one where the famous austrian had his hide out and tours are via electric boat to preserve the cleanliness and tranquility...
all these plans generally make me envious ... i get itchy feet... whatever way you choose theres a wealth to do and see either before in or just after the alps ....
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Flyingpigs;120594]Not scary at all - been on much worse on 'normal' roads. If you have time do it. Also, sometimes the queues for the tunnel are horrific - keep on the inside lane and you can bypass these and take the turnoff for the pass.[/quote]
[quote=alan h;120617]The Gotthard pass is well worth doing. It is not a difficult drive, unless you are either towing or in an old VW camper van. It is a wee bit steep at first [from the Swiss side], but the views from the top are amazing. For a flavour of the views see:-
[URL]http://www.gotthardtunnel.eu/images/gotthard-pass.jpg[/URL] and [URL]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/3120329824_b1d4299239.jpg[/URL]
Allow an hour for the pass [plenty of time to stop at the top then]
Also - the Swiss motorway vignette costs £27 You can buy online at [URL="http://www.switzerlandtravelcentre.co.uk/vignette.html?gclid=CKegsY2HtJoCFQObFQodnnv5bg"]Switzerland Travel Centre.co.uk | Swiss Travel Passes[/URL]. This is easier than at the border The vignette is valid for a calendar year, plus the December before and the January afterwards. ,[/quote]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Thanks very much. Now I just have to convince Mr. Mon that I will not drive the same speed on the pass as when I drive through Germany! Mind you, I’m not that keen to drive through the pass, much rather check out the scenery but I won’t tell him that :laughs:[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style][FONT=Century Gothic]Almost the same price here 29.20 Euros not that I have ever paid full price.[/FONT] [SIZE=2][I]I’m not suggesting that you check popular auction sites just after the skiing season has finished when there are plenty to buy for less than half the price.:bigergrin:[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Don’t forget that if you travel through Austria you also need an Austrian vignette which you can buy at petrol stations near the border. If you don't have one then the fine can be quite high (from 400 Euros to 4000 Euros) if you are caught that is. I understand that they are now using ‘hidden’ cameras to check whether motorists have a valid vignette. There are also toll charges for several stretches on the Austrian motorways e.g. Brenner Pass is about €8.00.[/FONT]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Flyingpigs;120560]The Gotthart pass rather than the tunnel is a lovely route and a good place to stop for a picnic lunch and walk. However, as you only plan to be in Switzerland one way you may feel it is wasting the vignette not to use the tunnel! We have never managed to avoid getting onto a motorway in Switzerland so have always had to buy a vignette (it lasts a year).
My brother in law has arrived here from UK with his 3 bikes in the Fiat Doblo. He said he could not use the Gotthart Pass due to snow, so check before you take this route, even in early June snow may be a problem.
As an aside, he stops and cycles each day to enjoy the scenery and then goes back for his car, (which he sleeps in, often at trucker stops which he says are excellent!!). He's in his mid 50's and thinks it makes a great trip to Italy, it takes all sorts.:eerr:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Another vote for the San Gotthard Pass.
Not scary at all.
Steep Road from the North, but two lanes all the way.
"Hairpins" not difficult at all.
As to Route, as discussed on other threads, route through Belgium is as quick as France with no tolls, cheaper petrol, then via Luxembourg, Metz, Colmar (worth a stop here for a couple of nights. spend a day in the town, then a day on the wine route), San Gotthard, como etc.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Noble;120673]..........My brother in law ...........said he could not use the Gotthard Pass due to snow, so check before you take this route, even in early June snow may be a problem. ........:[/quote]
There are clear signs on the Swiss motorways that tell whether passes are open or shut - so you shouldn't get caught out
Overnight stop? - Mulhouse [near French/Swiss/German border] is about 6.5 hrs driving from the ferry - plenty of hotels etc.
However - not the most beautiful of places. Really 'sad' people visit the French National Railway museum there (I resisted the temptation)
I'd suggest, as a route, that you go down the motorways to Luxembourg and then almost due south on motorways past Metz and Nancy and over the mountains [a shortish section of non dual carriageway] to Mulhouse [Fill up with petrol in Luxembourg - there are 2 large filling stations - one as you just enter Luxembourg, and one just before you leave].
I would also suggest that you consider avoiding the Milan Tangentiale [its M25] - you could consider going cross country from Como to Bergamo - not great roads, but probably better than Milan.
Good Luck
.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Alan's route is one I've used the last couple of times for my trips to the UK. Although there is the cost of the Swiss motorway vignette which I've bought en route, it still works out cheaper than the French motorways, and although slower over the Juras you save a bit on petrol without your foot to the floor all the way (plus anywhere is cheaper for petrol than French motorways!). I've done the Channel to Aosta alone and in a day using that route and it's one worth considering if you are coming from Torino: up the motorway to the Valle d'Aoste, take a turn right at Aosta and you head into even more dramatic scenery especially if you go over the pass and don't take the tunnel.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We stop in Neuemberg am Rhiene - small town near the Rhine - we tend ot leave Cheshire around 7am, catch the ferry (we have a gpl car so can't do the tunnel) and get there in time for a late dinner. We then drive down to the Southern marche the next day. This way even with the swiss vignette being used only one way works out MUCH cheaper than France (esp if you do Mont Blanc).
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I agree with a lot of the comments about the gotthard pass rather than the tunnel. Always buy my vignette at the border - pay with visa card in swiss francs NOT pounds as their exchange rate is not good - Nationwide's is better - £24 this Easter. The other reason we do it there is it makes a good comfort stop as toilets are by the vignette booth. We stop overnight in a Wasselonne - about 6 1/2 hours from the coast - just drop off the motorway and then rejoin below Strasbourg.
Pass was closed on 25th April but clear signs warn you of this. Also there is little point in going over the pass if there is low cloud but again you can see how it is looking as you approach.
Buon Viaggio[/FONT]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=coppicer;120752]................ there is little point in going over the pass if there is low cloud but again you can see how it is looking as you approach.
Buon Viaggio[/FONT][/quote]
I'd always thought that until last year when, in atrocious weather, the queue for the Gotthard tunnel was stationary [crash?] so against my better judgement I decided to go 'up and over' - climbed up through the rain and clouds and spent a very sunny picnic stop on the top of the pass.
.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Three points that may assist driving to Italy – all are from some of my previous postings – but I think they are worth repeating.
If you drive in France - you might want to look at
[url]http://www.controleradar.org/en.html/[/url]
its the French speed camera site
For fuel prices in Europe, look at
[url=http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/]Fuel Price Reports : AA monthly fuel price report for April 2009 - The AA[/url]
I have always found getting through Basel a bit of a pain - but I found a route around Basel that cut the delays to less than 15 minutes. [I have spent over 2 hours getting through the traffic and Customs/immigration checks in Basel, and never less than 30 minutes queuing in the car]
The route is very simple, and only adds about 5 miles or so to the route. Coming down the German autobahn [easy connection from France at Mulhouse] - take the turn off just before Basel to Lorrach and continue into Switzerland that way. Its a good road all the way - mainly dual carriageway - and it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to leave. You end up on the Swiss motorway about 1km East of the turn to Lucerne.
Hope these assist
.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We drive from Belgium to Italy twice a year and have evolved a route which allows us to avoid my three pet hates – paying the Swiss for spending a couple of hours on their motorways, the Gotthard Tunnel which now seems to take forever and the A1 in Italy down to Umbria.
We do: Brussels – Luxembourg – Metz – Nancy – Dijon (avoid Lyons) – Geneva (Fr) where we spend the night at a Mercure hotel – Mont Blanc tunnel – Aosta – Genoa – turn before Pisa for Lucca towards Florence and pick up the A1 at Florence until the Super Strada for Perugia at Val di Chiana. We then take the E45 south from Perugia to where we live. We repeat it on the way back.
It is probably not cheaper, and it is certainly not shorter than our old route through Strasbourg, Basel, Gotthard, Milan and points south, but it is much quieter and, to my mind, much more pleasant and our two days are shortish ones: at Easter we reached our intermediate destinations at 5 p.m. and, on the way back, we were home in Brussels by 4 p.m. I could only wish for more Autogrills on the A 25/26 so that stops for lunch can be better organised!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Alan said:
<>
The roads in this area were undergoing a major revision last summer, and we had great difficulty negotiating them - very poorly signed.
Hopefully someone may know if this is finished, because if it isn't then the tangenzionale may be better.
It is always very busy at all times though.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=alan h;120790]Three points that may assist driving to Italy – all are from some of my previous postings – but I think they are worth repeating.
If you drive in France - you might want to look at
[URL]http://www.controleradar.org/en.html/[/URL]
its the French speed camera site
For fuel prices in Europe, look at
[URL="http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/"]Fuel Price Reports : AA monthly fuel price report for April 2009 - The AA[/URL]
[B][I]I have always found getting through Basel a bit of a pain - but I found a route around Basel that cut the delays to less than 15 minutes. [I have spent over 2 hours getting through the traffic and Customs/immigration checks in Basel, and never less than 30 minutes queuing in the car][/I][/B]
The route is very simple, and only adds about 5 miles or so to the route. Coming down the German autobahn [easy connection from France at Mulhouse] - take the turn off just before Basel to Lorrach and continue into Switzerland that way. Its a good road all the way - mainly dual carriageway - and it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to leave. You end up on the Swiss motorway about 1km East of the turn to Lucerne.
Hope these assist .[/quote]
[FONT=Century Gothic]Really :eeeek: We have never been stopped just waved through :bigergrin:[/FONT]
[quote=Annamaria;120808]We drive from Belgium to Italy twice a year and have evolved a route which allows us to avoid my three pet hates – paying the Swiss for spending a couple of hours on their motorways, the Gotthard Tunnel which now seems to take forever and the A1 in Italy down to Umbria.
We do: Brussels – Luxembourg – Metz – Nancy – Dijon (avoid Lyons) – Geneva (Fr) where we spend the night at a Mercure hotel – Mont Blanc tunnel – Aosta – Genoa – turn before Pisa for Lucca towards Florence and pick up the A1 at Florence until the Super Strada for Perugia at Val di Chiana. We then take the E45 south from Perugia to where we live. We repeat it on the way back.
It is probably not cheaper, and it is certainly not shorter than our old route through Strasbourg, Basel, Gotthard, Milan and points south, but it is much quieter and, to my mind, much more pleasant and our two days are shortish ones: at Easter we reached our intermediate destinations at 5 p.m. and, on the way back, we were home in Brussels by 4 p.m. I could only wish for more Autogrills on the A 25/26 so that stops for lunch can be better organised![/quote]
[FONT=Century Gothic]We're live 'next door' to you :bigergrin: We considered your route but decided that the Gotthard tunnel was the lesser of the two evils i.e. Mont Blanc.[/FONT]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Annamaria;120808]We drive from Belgium to Italy twice a year and have evolved a route which allows us to avoid my three pet hates – paying the Swiss for spending a couple of hours on their motorways, the Gotthard Tunnel which now seems to take forever and the A1 in Italy down to Umbria.
We do: Brussels – Luxembourg – Metz – Nancy – Dijon (avoid Lyons) – Geneva (Fr) where we spend the night at a Mercure hotel – Mont Blanc tunnel – Aosta – Genoa – turn before Pisa for Lucca towards Florence and pick up the A1 at Florence until the Super Strada for Perugia at Val di Chiana. We then take the E45 south from Perugia to where we live. We repeat it on the way back.
It is probably not cheaper, and it is certainly not shorter than our old route through Strasbourg, Basel, Gotthard, Milan and points south, but it is much quieter and, to my mind, much more pleasant and our two days are shortish ones: at Easter we reached our intermediate destinations at 5 p.m. and, on the way back, we were home in Brussels by 4 p.m. I could only wish for more Autogrills on the A 25/26 so that stops for lunch can be better organised![/quote] Might i suggest trying a slight variant on this route. Getting of at dole, just after dijon and heading towards pontilier and onwards toward lauserne rather then mont blanc.Scienic it is and you can go over the grand san bernard [late may onwards] and really loose no extra time or cost any more than the mont blanc route.....
Just incase you ever feel like a change..
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Neil T;120811]Alan said:
<>
The roads in this area were undergoing a major revision last summer, and we had great difficulty negotiating them - very poorly signed.
Hopefully someone may know if this is finished, because if it isn't then the tangenzionale may be better.
It is always very busy at all times though.[/quote] We used como to bergamo route in late September, we get off just after the colderio services in Switzerland, just metres away from the border gaudes and enter como that way...No road works stick in my mind but it would have been early Saturday morning too.....
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=alan h;120790]
I have always found getting through Basel a bit of a pain - but I found a route around Basel that cut the delays to less than 15 minutes. [I have spent over 2 hours getting through the traffic and Customs/immigration checks in Basel, and never less than 30 minutes queuing in the car]
The route is very simple, and only adds about 5 miles or so to the route. Coming down the German autobahn [easy connection from France at Mulhouse] - take the turn off just before Basel to Lorrach and continue into Switzerland that way. Its a good road all the way - mainly dual carriageway - and it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to leave. You end up on the Swiss motorway about 1km East of the turn to Lucerne.
Hope these assist
.[/quote]
We have used Alan's cut through each time we have driven - it is really easy and we have had no problmes with the Swiss border (just the usual check that we have the vignette. Incidentally you can buy the vignette over the internet ([url=http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/produkttexte.php?passid=5]Motorway vignette[/url]) which we found to be quick and convenient.)
Chris
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=adriatica;120626]agree with flyingpigs as well on the austria route... the brenner pass gets you down to that side of Italy without having to traverse some of the major italian traffic blocks,,,
i also used to branch off the southern Germany area...rather than take the motorway via munich... head down towards the fern pass and or take the achansee turning off after munich... the lake is pretty...good hotels and you then pass down to innsbruck and then up the brener...
the other route is to go down past the fairy tale castle of Neuschwanstein ... king Ludwig's place ...
in fact its a pretty limitless choice as the road down via salzburg...say stopping there would take you out near venice... and there are some pretty spectacular lakes to visit around salzburg... one where the famous austrian had his hide out and tours are via electric boat to preserve the cleanliness and tranquility...
all these plans generally make me envious ... i get itchy feet... whatever way you choose theres a wealth to do and see either before in or just after the alps ....[/quote]
I'm a big fan of this area of Germany ( King Ludwigs place ), and stop there for my overnight rest on every trip to Italy ; but I come down from Amsterdam and it's very convenient for me. It will add a fair few extra miles if you're coming from france......worth it though.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=alan h;120790]Three points that may assist driving to Italy – all are from some of my previous postings – but I think they are worth repeating.
If you drive in France - you might want to look at
[url]http://www.controleradar.org/en.html/[/url]
its the French speed camera site
For fuel prices in Europe, look at
[url=http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/]Fuel Price Reports : AA monthly fuel price report for April 2009 - The AA[/url]
I have always found getting through Basel a bit of a pain - but I found a route around Basel that cut the delays to less than 15 minutes. [I have spent over 2 hours getting through the traffic and Customs/immigration checks in Basel, and never less than 30 minutes queuing in the car]
The route is very simple, and only adds about 5 miles or so to the route. Coming down the German autobahn [easy connection from France at Mulhouse] - take the turn off just before Basel to Lorrach and continue into Switzerland that way. Its a good road all the way - mainly dual carriageway - and it only took 10 minutes to 'do the checks' to enter Switzerland and 15 to leave. You end up on the Swiss motorway about 1km East of the turn to Lucerne.
Hope these assist
.[/quote]
I got stuck in Basel once too....in a huge traffic jam for no apparent reason at 11.30pm. Got stuck there for over an hour just after clearing customs and paying for that vignette thing. It was my one and only attempt at driving to Italy via France and Switzerland. I also hated that Gotthard tunnel - 18km of diesel fumes coming in my vents yeuch!! Give me Germany and Austria every time ! Sorry if this sounds negative - just my opinion from experience Lol.
i often stopped in the Jura area of france...its reachable from the coast in the day and allows you to take a days drive to your destination... fast motorways in france via lille get you down south quickly and i use to get off the motorway around bescancon and head inland... getting a hotel near the lakes or rivers for a couple of nights... you can then drop down into Switzerland easily enough and over to Italy without too much fuss...
in the Jura there are many good regional foods... good accomodation...and tons of things to do... and its a good place to stretch your legs for a day after a long drive.... there is a place i liked ... a sort of Husky reserve ...where you can visit... the animals all live in a sort of virtual wild state... and are used for sledge racing... the lakes i have already mentioned... and also plenty of caves... nice sometimes on a hot day to wander down below ground...