Thanks Charlotte I am completely at my wit's end over this. We are supposed to be moving to Italy in May and I cannot bear even the remotest possibility that the joint ownership of our house could revert to someone else on the death of my spouse. We have no other sizeable assets. My house is mine, bought with my money, not some grown-up children who I don't know. How can that possibly continue to be the law??? When I calm down I will look into obtaining legal advice as you suggest. Is it wrong to ask you for a PM with some suggestions in Northern Tuscany? I don't know who else to ask. Thanks
Thanks Charlotte for the reply...but I'm still unsure as to what is up for grabs by the 'heirs' - whosoever they turn out to be - Firstly, can spouse A and B hold property jointly and wholly? - I don't know what this is called in italian, or even if what I descibe is possible but I mean "joint tenancy with right of survivorship (JTROS or JTWROS) is a type of concurrent estate in which co-owners have a right of survivorship, meaning that if one owner dies, that owner's interest in the property will pass to the surviving owner or owners by operation of law, and avoiding probate. The deceased owner's interest in the property simply evaporates and cannot be inherited by his or her heirs. Under this type of ownership, the last owner living owns all the property, and on his or her death the property will form part of their estate. Unlike a tenancy in common, where co-owners may have unequal interests in a property, joint co-owners have an equal share in the property." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_estate] So on one spouse's death the 'commuione' isn't dissolved because both spouses owned the house entirely - no 'half shares' and the property (house) does not become part of the estate of the deceased. Does this happen in Italy? Or when one spouse dies does the house become part of the 'forced heirship' issue - the deceased spouse's children by a former marriage. Will the other spouse lose entire ownership and be out on the street? And I'm a bit confused about how to make a will that refects my intentions. If I die first my spouse gets (almost) everything and vice versa. Where do I make this will? And does it need to be translated 'officially'? Thanks
Firstly Charlotte, thanks for your patience and invaluable advice on this forum. What a godsend for us newbies! My question is based on this set of circumstances: Wife - Australian citizen and resident, soon to be joint owner (as in Aus/UK law joint tenancy) of Italian real property as primary residence who has no children. Husband - British citizen but Australian permanent resident also soon to be joint owner of Italian real property as primary residence and who has children from a previous marriage. We're moving lock and stock and I understand that as a non-european I will be extended the same rights to live and work as my husband. Having read your posts on wills and nominating the national laws to applyand so on I feel informed but confused over what constitutes the 'estate' of the deceased. Are immoveable property (the house) and bank accounts held jointly part of it? Do they revert to the sole ownership of the other joint owner on one's death?
Sorry not to put the previous comment as a new post as you suggested. In the create a new post form, under 'post body' I am not able to either type the query anew or to cut and paste it. The cursor simply does not appear...
Firstly Charlotte, thanks for your patience and invaluable advice on this forum. What a godsend for us newbies! My question is based on this set of circumstances: Wife - Australian citizen and resident, soon to be joint owner (as in Aus/UK law joint tenancy) of Italian real property as primary residence who has no children. Husband - British citizen but Australian permanent resident also soon to be joint owner of Italian real property as primary residence and who has children from a previous marriage. We're moving lock and stock and I understand that as a non-european I will be extended the same rights to live and work as my husband. Having read your posts on wills and nominating the national laws to applyand so on I feel informed but confused over what constitutes the 'estate' of the deceased. Are immoveable property (the house) and bank accounts held jointly part of it? Do they revert to the sole ownership of the other joint owner on one's death?
Comments posted
Thanks Charlotte I am completely at my wit's end over this. We are supposed to be moving to Italy in May and I cannot bear even the remotest possibility that the joint ownership of our house could revert to someone else on the death of my spouse. We have no other sizeable assets. My house is mine, bought with my money, not some grown-up children who I don't know. How can that possibly continue to be the law??? When I calm down I will look into obtaining legal advice as you suggest. Is it wrong to ask you for a PM with some suggestions in Northern Tuscany? I don't know who else to ask. Thanks
Thanks Charlotte for the reply...but I'm still unsure as to what is up for grabs by the 'heirs' - whosoever they turn out to be - Firstly, can spouse A and B hold property jointly and wholly? - I don't know what this is called in italian, or even if what I descibe is possible but I mean "joint tenancy with right of survivorship (JTROS or JTWROS) is a type of concurrent estate in which co-owners have a right of survivorship, meaning that if one owner dies, that owner's interest in the property will pass to the surviving owner or owners by operation of law, and avoiding probate. The deceased owner's interest in the property simply evaporates and cannot be inherited by his or her heirs. Under this type of ownership, the last owner living owns all the property, and on his or her death the property will form part of their estate. Unlike a tenancy in common, where co-owners may have unequal interests in a property, joint co-owners have an equal share in the property." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_estate] So on one spouse's death the 'commuione' isn't dissolved because both spouses owned the house entirely - no 'half shares' and the property (house) does not become part of the estate of the deceased. Does this happen in Italy? Or when one spouse dies does the house become part of the 'forced heirship' issue - the deceased spouse's children by a former marriage. Will the other spouse lose entire ownership and be out on the street? And I'm a bit confused about how to make a will that refects my intentions. If I die first my spouse gets (almost) everything and vice versa. Where do I make this will? And does it need to be translated 'officially'? Thanks
Thanks for the reply. But nope. Not even if one presses it over and OVER. No text appears when typing, pasting or poking. No cursor, No txt.
Firstly Charlotte, thanks for your patience and invaluable advice on this forum. What a godsend for us newbies! My question is based on this set of circumstances: Wife - Australian citizen and resident, soon to be joint owner (as in Aus/UK law joint tenancy) of Italian real property as primary residence who has no children. Husband - British citizen but Australian permanent resident also soon to be joint owner of Italian real property as primary residence and who has children from a previous marriage. We're moving lock and stock and I understand that as a non-european I will be extended the same rights to live and work as my husband. Having read your posts on wills and nominating the national laws to apply and so on I feel informed but confused over what constitutes the 'estate' of the deceased. Are immoveable property (the house) and bank accounts held jointly part of it? Do they revert to the sole ownership of the other joint owner on one's death?
Sorry not to put the previous comment as a new post as you suggested. In the create a new post form, under 'post body' I am not able to either type the query anew or to cut and paste it. The cursor simply does not appear...
Firstly Charlotte, thanks for your patience and invaluable advice on this forum. What a godsend for us newbies! My question is based on this set of circumstances: Wife - Australian citizen and resident, soon to be joint owner (as in Aus/UK law joint tenancy) of Italian real property as primary residence who has no children. Husband - British citizen but Australian permanent resident also soon to be joint owner of Italian real property as primary residence and who has children from a previous marriage. We're moving lock and stock and I understand that as a non-european I will be extended the same rights to live and work as my husband. Having read your posts on wills and nominating the national laws to apply and so on I feel informed but confused over what constitutes the 'estate' of the deceased. Are immoveable property (the house) and bank accounts held jointly part of it? Do they revert to the sole ownership of the other joint owner on one's death?