I would be very grateful for a link of pre dial budget phone numbers in Italy for phoning UK mobile to mobile. The ones you can call first before you enter the number.( ie without needing a card) Thanks in advance
Taxation treaties only cover so much, and in this case (Uk/Italy) the laws relating to CGT are different. As I understand it, where you are domiciled is key not where the funds eventually end up. If this was your PPR (principle private residence) then no CGT is liable to UK inland revenue. If it wasnt your PPR even though you had Italian residency, you will still be liable for any profits on sale to UK revenue minus deductions etc. If this is the case get a wriggle on...CGT soon going to be increased in Blighty. good luck.
Donna unless things have changed recently you dont have to go to the Atto in person (we have avoided it twice now) however Your solictors will need to draw up a procura speciale, which will have to be stamped (apostile) by the foreign office if it's crossing National borders, it will save you the travel expenses of going, however, the procura will nominate someone on your behalf to represent you + sign, so you may have to pay them for their services on the day....... unless you know of someone wiling to do it for free, check this with your solicitors.
From the conversations i have had there was definitely a fostering mentality among the contadini stemming from the fact that so many had absent sons themselves due to the war......heres one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aew6dktDJDQ
"a home is worth what anyone will pay for it and as 'the female of the species' we just know when its in the right place, and at the right time, and for the right money -which could be anything......that we can afford...." or whatever someone is prepared to lend you. Despite everything being thrown at asset prices, from QE to near zero base rates prices, signs of deflation are coming through, inflation in many areas, particularly the UK + english enclaves of western europe are based on 15 yrs of cheap easily available credit, not as the result of feminine intuition.:) Prices dont yet reflect the new reality of squeezed credit conditions, wage stagnation, sovereign indebtedness and over capacity generally. Interesting to see what happens when interest rates rise.
The trouble with a lot of the "lovely village houses for less than 200,000e' is that many near you are in de-populating centro storico like Monte Vidon Corrado, Montepone (particularly), Falerone, Penna SG etc so they are a bit dead and soulless for much of the year. Have actually seen 3 very nice restored stand alone houses for under 200,000, (one of them well under!) with plenty of land for a pool..... as the de leveraging continues + sterling tanks there are good opportunities emerging for cash buyers. With regard to the original post, you really do need the details, ie who collated them, when, and what criteria they used for them to have any real meaning.
You are absolutely right, it is too high for the market we have had, but it's been such an extraordinary period that it was very difficult to know whether the market was going to adjust back to 2007, both in terms of purchaser numbers, (which dropped off a cliff ) confidence and most importantly - for those of us in areas where the English have been the mainstay of the farmhouse market - until the Sterling exchange rate improves. Difficult to see how this particular section of the market, is going to change that much in the near future. There is certainly hundreds of lovely houses just languishing on the market. I think im right in saying property in Italy is the second highest in the world when compared to wages and until inflation erodes the debt mountain and wages, pensions and savings close the gap its going to be a long drawn out affair, probably several years, for the market to thrive and transaction numbers to increase.
It's simplistic to think Gov Debt in itself is the only problem here, but rather, ongoing lack of competitiveness and sustainability. After a long honeymoon the Eurozone is now confronting the demons and issues that the contrarian economists were warning all those years ago. How do completely disparate economies and cultures cope and thrive without the flexibility to determine their own interest rate and devaluation? This will be the opportunity the federalists have been waiting for to push for further integration, but persuading the German population in particular to bail out Greece with its bloated public sector and retirement age 5 yrs lower than its own, plus 30% youth unemployment and enormous black economy, will be interesting to see....... We have had one house for sale in Italy for 3 yrs. So agree with sentiment above. The price is not only what someone is willing to pay but also what someone is willing to lend!
Point taken about your local agent Penny, (always loathe to mention any names on here!) which I hadnt factored in. It's not so much the accuracy of the Agencia Territorio that i doubt but the method it uses, Dividing sale price by SQM might work for a thriving town like amandola, but take a depopulating village, many have no recorded sales in 6 month periods, do they base todays data (sqm value) on say one sale that happened in say 07 or even before? very hit and miss if thats the method. ( Is there an outside wide shot of your house for context? The buildings above those beautiful cantina must be absolutely enormous, whats your liability?). Dont be too sure about it being expensive for size. Its strange, although I've restored many houses in both uk and italy, sick of it now , to the point where I dont care a fig about volume. Outside space is important, but I would be very happy to pay to live in 70sqm if it felt right! And I know from talking to other old gits, that I'm not the only one who thinks this way!
Looks great Penny. (Parking?) Square metre pricing does make sense but there are times when the rule book and dogma goes out of the window. Particularly in sleepy rural areas away from schools, commercial areas etc. New build flats in the village we live in, the first ever, were fought over tooth and nail, as you would expect prices varied according to sqm. Same village several capacious old buildings for sale have been empty for years, sqm value a tiny fraction. Why? Well apart from the scary restoration costs its not how many modern Italian want to live anymore, or at least its not as popular as modern condos. consequently its not worth the candle or risk for developers who will also struggle to get permissions for terraces etc, They certainly dont fit the criteria for N Europeans. So despite what the Agencia territorio says for sqm values for this village, ( imagine their data is based on sale prices for previous years -would be interested to know - this would explain why even in depopulating villages the SQM valuation look healthy!) it would be difficult to give the old buildings away, some of them a liability, and will probably one day have to be restored by the comune as they are undermining other buildings. Personally I will always prefer the "location x3" mantra, ie. Amandola / detached / garden will resonate more to me than a low SQM value. Interesting that Avio is busy selling, especially at this time of year, as the two agents up the road from you Penny say its deathly quiet. I quite agree about the middle of the market being the one thats suffering most. I would definitely recommend is it Amanda to really market hard on the B and B potential, walkers maybe? If the space can be utilised like that it would appeal to people who need an income ........and the mountains are close by.
Comments posted
Taxation treaties only cover so much, and in this case (Uk/Italy) the laws relating to CGT are different. As I understand it, where you are domiciled is key not where the funds eventually end up. If this was your PPR (principle private residence) then no CGT is liable to UK inland revenue. If it wasnt your PPR even though you had Italian residency, you will still be liable for any profits on sale to UK revenue minus deductions etc. If this is the case get a wriggle on...CGT soon going to be increased in Blighty. good luck.
Donna unless things have changed recently you dont have to go to the Atto in person (we have avoided it twice now) however Your solictors will need to draw up a procura speciale, which will have to be stamped (apostile) by the foreign office if it's crossing National borders, it will save you the travel expenses of going, however, the procura will nominate someone on your behalf to represent you + sign, so you may have to pay them for their services on the day....... unless you know of someone wiling to do it for free, check this with your solicitors.
http://www.petsinitaly.com/
From the conversations i have had there was definitely a fostering mentality among the contadini stemming from the fact that so many had absent sons themselves due to the war......heres one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aew6dktDJDQ
"a home is worth what anyone will pay for it and as 'the female of the species' we just know when its in the right place, and at the right time, and for the right money -which could be anything......that we can afford...." or whatever someone is prepared to lend you. Despite everything being thrown at asset prices, from QE to near zero base rates prices, signs of deflation are coming through, inflation in many areas, particularly the UK + english enclaves of western europe are based on 15 yrs of cheap easily available credit, not as the result of feminine intuition.:) Prices dont yet reflect the new reality of squeezed credit conditions, wage stagnation, sovereign indebtedness and over capacity generally. Interesting to see what happens when interest rates rise.
The trouble with a lot of the "lovely village houses for less than 200,000e' is that many near you are in de-populating centro storico like Monte Vidon Corrado, Montepone (particularly), Falerone, Penna SG etc so they are a bit dead and soulless for much of the year. Have actually seen 3 very nice restored stand alone houses for under 200,000, (one of them well under!) with plenty of land for a pool..... as the de leveraging continues + sterling tanks there are good opportunities emerging for cash buyers. With regard to the original post, you really do need the details, ie who collated them, when, and what criteria they used for them to have any real meaning.
You are absolutely right, it is too high for the market we have had, but it's been such an extraordinary period that it was very difficult to know whether the market was going to adjust back to 2007, both in terms of purchaser numbers, (which dropped off a cliff ) confidence and most importantly - for those of us in areas where the English have been the mainstay of the farmhouse market - until the Sterling exchange rate improves. Difficult to see how this particular section of the market, is going to change that much in the near future. There is certainly hundreds of lovely houses just languishing on the market. I think im right in saying property in Italy is the second highest in the world when compared to wages and until inflation erodes the debt mountain and wages, pensions and savings close the gap its going to be a long drawn out affair, probably several years, for the market to thrive and transaction numbers to increase.
It's simplistic to think Gov Debt in itself is the only problem here, but rather, ongoing lack of competitiveness and sustainability. After a long honeymoon the Eurozone is now confronting the demons and issues that the contrarian economists were warning all those years ago. How do completely disparate economies and cultures cope and thrive without the flexibility to determine their own interest rate and devaluation? This will be the opportunity the federalists have been waiting for to push for further integration, but persuading the German population in particular to bail out Greece with its bloated public sector and retirement age 5 yrs lower than its own, plus 30% youth unemployment and enormous black economy, will be interesting to see....... We have had one house for sale in Italy for 3 yrs. So agree with sentiment above. The price is not only what someone is willing to pay but also what someone is willing to lend!
Point taken about your local agent Penny, (always loathe to mention any names on here!) which I hadnt factored in. It's not so much the accuracy of the Agencia Territorio that i doubt but the method it uses, Dividing sale price by SQM might work for a thriving town like amandola, but take a depopulating village, many have no recorded sales in 6 month periods, do they base todays data (sqm value) on say one sale that happened in say 07 or even before? very hit and miss if thats the method. ( Is there an outside wide shot of your house for context? The buildings above those beautiful cantina must be absolutely enormous, whats your liability?). Dont be too sure about it being expensive for size. Its strange, although I've restored many houses in both uk and italy, sick of it now , to the point where I dont care a fig about volume. Outside space is important, but I would be very happy to pay to live in 70sqm if it felt right! And I know from talking to other old gits, that I'm not the only one who thinks this way!
Looks great Penny. (Parking?) Square metre pricing does make sense but there are times when the rule book and dogma goes out of the window. Particularly in sleepy rural areas away from schools, commercial areas etc. New build flats in the village we live in, the first ever, were fought over tooth and nail, as you would expect prices varied according to sqm. Same village several capacious old buildings for sale have been empty for years, sqm value a tiny fraction. Why? Well apart from the scary restoration costs its not how many modern Italian want to live anymore, or at least its not as popular as modern condos. consequently its not worth the candle or risk for developers who will also struggle to get permissions for terraces etc, They certainly dont fit the criteria for N Europeans. So despite what the Agencia territorio says for sqm values for this village, ( imagine their data is based on sale prices for previous years -would be interested to know - this would explain why even in depopulating villages the SQM valuation look healthy!) it would be difficult to give the old buildings away, some of them a liability, and will probably one day have to be restored by the comune as they are undermining other buildings. Personally I will always prefer the "location x3" mantra, ie. Amandola / detached / garden will resonate more to me than a low SQM value. Interesting that Avio is busy selling, especially at this time of year, as the two agents up the road from you Penny say its deathly quiet. I quite agree about the middle of the market being the one thats suffering most. I would definitely recommend is it Amanda to really market hard on the B and B potential, walkers maybe? If the space can be utilised like that it would appeal to people who need an income ........and the mountains are close by.