For Sale . 1 slightly used Forum.

10/21/2011 - 07:48

FOR SALE.One slightly used but much loved Forum (also answers to the name Community).House trained and usually well behaved, but can leave a mess. Looking for a caring owner who will spend time improving it's performance, and sorting out it's few behavioural problems.No reasonable offer refused.Please apply to :-ISTOS SRL. Via Sicilia 72, 97014 Ispica (RG), ItaliaTel:- +39 0932 950222



you'll be upsetting one or two people who think this forum is the bees knees, personally I preferred the old one - even with all the spats. At least some of the comments made you smile wink

There is an old Russian proverb that goes like this: "Don't blame the mirror if your face is lopsided" A Forum, Community, or whatever, is as good and interesting as its members are. No input, no interest. On the other hand, a nurturing Admin and lots of TLC are needed. If we can't combine all this, we do not have a Forum (or a Community, or whatever) but a boring monologue that nobody wants to read. Nothing is achieved by complaining, critizising or making fun of it. Affirmative action is needed.

Well I'll sit on the naughty step for the rest of the day..... and less of the snipes on my're no Oil Painting yourself; oh sorry, you are...... So what sort of affirmative action do you (who seems to be holding a torch for said Forum) sugest is needed, beside someone having a light hearted poke at the people who do not seem to give a Tinkers Cus about it ???

Come on, Flip. Stop being so flippant. Don't twist my words and don't try to pick a fight with me, because I am not going to give you that pleasure. I am simply making an appeal to the other 3000+ members of this Community, or Forum, or whatever, to come up with some positive ideas and to implement them. I firmly believe that I have already done my bit, being the Top poster and starting 4 groups and all that... Time for others to do their bit. If members want this space to go ahead, they are going to have to contribute to it instead of moaning and criticizing.. I do not want to play the Saviour's role; everyone knows that the one who tries that, may end up crucified... or perhaps "torched". My life is full of interesting and positive things to do and enjoy and I do not need all this drama. Good night! 

We know you're the top poster; you've said so before, but you assume the right to stop people voicing thier own opinions or views on the state of this 'Forum'. If you see your self as the elder statesman or Voce del Popolo then get on with it, but don't try to dictate to me or others what they may or may not post here. Good night to you...!

Gala you have always been a positive contributer to this forum....for many years now...and your imput is much appreciated. Flip I truely believe you want to cause discord and start negative threads within the forum, its been done before as you are well aware...give it a rest and let those who want to share experiences and seek advice get on with it without your brand of "humour" one wants to gag you or dictate what you write...but some positive imput would be much appreciated. Ok had my say and I wont be engaging in any point scoring on this issue.

A & R hopefully this means you'll keep your smug self righteous opinions to yourself then. If you don't appreciate my humour (and lots of people don't) then how do you feel you have the right to condemn it? Far from being negative and disruptive I was aiming at a light hearted swipe at the lack of any Admin. input on here, but obviously as I don't belong to the Gala Appreciation Society anything that appears frivolous or dissenting is scorned. Maybe she should take over the Admin mantle...? At least it has the effect of generating some discussion on an oft lack lustre Forum...

In reply to by Flip

Why has this become a slanging match? I thought Flip's post at the top was quite witty and not a bit offensive. I'm afraid I'm one of the "guilty" ones who doesn't contribute much, spending most of my time in England, but I do like to read about things happening in Italy by people who know a lot more than me. I'd like to write something interesting but I've already exhausted my story of being rescued from a monastery toilet by a pilgrim by telling it to all my friends, and I'm not sure it would be all that useful to anyone else, apart from to warn them not to turn the key in that particular convenience unless they were certain that their OH, unlike mine, would not be completely deaf to shouts, bangs and his mobile phone. On the plus side, the pilgrim in question was young, tall and handsome.Iit was just a pity it was not a tall tower I was being rescued from, by letting down my hair or something. Loos dont give you quite the same street cred! The loo was in the Badia di San Salvatore di monte Corona, by the way.

Thank you, Angie. I could not express it better. And Flip... what can I say.... I do not have a Fan Club and I do not want one. Other members - and I would include you in that group - like to bunch together, particularly when it comes to attacking other members, the forum.... whichever may be the target. I do not think that we don't appreciate your sense of humour. Sometimes, I find it very funny and refreshing. Sometimes, you need a muzzle, but I will not be the one to provide it. No interest in becoming a moderator or anything in that line... I will keep on repeating that self-moderation is what is needed. Responsible members who would not willingly harm the Forum, or Community, or whatever... It is not compulsory to join or remain in this space. There are plenty of forums and communities to choose from, or you can always have your own. But do not try to destroy. Granted that the Community is not perfect and would need some revamping, but this has already been said. It is up to the Admin to listen (or up to us to leave when we had enough). Bury the hatchet and be positive.

Don't know the history behind the various personal tensions here. Do know that it makes me a bit perplexed and uncomfortable to see people being negative or argumentative towards others online. Enough strife in the world without adding more. I appreciate contributions which are informative, amusing, personal... whatever. I can see that some people have a bigger presence than others and I thank those who take the time to give of themselves.  I have no idea what all this is about "admin" - who are they? What did they used to do that made the forum different? Was it better? Are they absent because for economic reasons they need to attend more to the money making side of Italymag and the forum in itself does not generate income? If so, that seems ok to me. Glad there are not ads flashing at me all over the place as I browse the forum. 

Gala who exactly do you think you're the one being offensive in your ludicrous 'now now Children' approach, along with trying to stifle free speech. If I wish to say something on a forum I shall, none of my posts on here have been offensive to any one except your over bearing sense of self importance. Just a few points here:- 1) You started this by implying I have no right to voice MY opinion in a humorous fashion, and in a manner I found very condescending. 2) Who cares that you have to keep pointing out ''I'm the Top Poster Here'. does this give you bragging rights? 3) The original Northern Tuscany Group was started by another person and not you. As soon as people stop this holier than thou approach and tut tutting when people post about subjects that irk your sentiments, then this Forum will be a better place

In reply to by Flip

I have been on the receiving end of the odd tut tut from the odd 'top' poster, does it matter ? I think having got things off one's chest, time has come to move on. I enjoy/want humour on the board, as well as great information guidance and advice, keep it all coming, Concerns of people regarding the workings of the Forum are serious in that they (WE !) want to keep the thing going, it does on occasion seem to go off the rails a bit. (Sorry if I've upset anyone saying that but it does !) S

Flip, you keep trying to pick a fight and twisting words, but I will make a couple of clarifications for the benefit of other members. 1) My original answer is just a comment on the current situation and it is not adressed to you but to all the members. No participation, no forum. Or as I said: "No input, no interest". We can't complain if we do not actively participate. Where do you see me saying that you have no right to voice your opinion?The Russian proverb and your comments..... Oooops, again this was not meant as a personal thing. 2) I'm not bragging any rights. If you read what I said, I am only stating that I am not going to come to the rescue. I think that I have done my bit and the figures prove my willingness to contribute. It is up to other members to provide content and to keep this site going. 3) The original Northern Tuscany Group was created by me in the old forum and I was its sole administrator, and this was also the case for Gardening, and Italian Cooking (which I re-registered here as "Il Buon Gustaio Circle"). What happened was that I sent my request to Admin at the same time (according to Admin only seconds apart) that another member applied for it (by the way, I think that this was not very nice of him without asking me first as a matter of basic courtesy). I received my confirmation, but the other person also received his. For this reason, Admin decided to appoint the two  as joint Administrators for the group. Now he is gone and this has created a problem which I am trying to solve through "Bella Toscana". It was not my idea, another member asked about the group. So please, get your facts straight before venturing opinions. Your accusations are totally without foundation. I am entitled to voice my opinion, and so are you.        

I have fond memories of this forum mainly due to the lively mix of personalities it once contained.There were many inflamatory posts and quite a bit of sulking and grumbling but it was a vibrant place. I think the people there probably enjoyed a confrontation but occasionally took this a bit too far!Most of the current posting members seem (to me) to be pretty normal people who like to discuss rather than argue and steer clear of controversy. To sum up - keep making thought provoking comments and don't try to be too safe with what you post but save the insults ! To you they may not mean anything but to the other person they can be enough to seriously unbalance them and we dont want that!

  laugh Flip…a few adjustments and it could be a good ad to buy Italy. Perhaps we should ask ourselves ‘’what can I do to make this a better forum’ But in all seriousness, this IS a good forum. There is a database full of valuable information submitted by members. In 99% of cases, I always find the answers or the information I am looking for so there is no need to start a new thread. I don’t live in Italy. I work fulltime which includes travelling. I try and contribute when I have time by sharing relevant information but as I said there is so much information here already, that there is no point in duplicating it. It would be nice though if admin merged duplicate threads as I often come across information by chance. We have also met some lovely people thanks to this forum yes Gr8 story Alma…I think I may have been tempted to run of with the pilgrim and ditch the OHlaugh It seems quite normal for the forum to be quiet especially at a time when Italy is in deep financial trouble. The situation as it is doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in the Italian market.

Ciao belli!! I feel I should post, first of all I agree with Flip's original post, this forum is more difficult to get your head round.  I can't work out how to put a new post and not a reply on.  Perhaps someone could give me instructions.  That aside, I wonder if anyone could give me advice as I have always enjoyed brilliant help and advice from the forum in years gone by.  I don't know if anyone remembers me posting about our roof in Italy which seems to be a bit of an ongoing saga.  We have an very old apartment (16th century) that was renovated in the late 1980s.  The roof is old and we have had to have it patched up a couple of times.  We had no problem until earlier this year when we had a little leak.  I got a local builder (Bruno) to fix it and he sent me photos of himself on the roof repairing it.  The photos gave me vertigo looking at them.  However I saw him putting what looked like sods of earth and grass on the roof!  Is this normal?  Am a bit concerned to say the least.  The same company patched it up two years ago and we have had no problem for two years.  Would appreciate anybody else's input and some help how to put new posts on the forum.  It's good to be back and I will try and now log in regularly. cheeky

Hi, Headyheady, I remember you. To post new content here (start a thread), have a look at the top of the page and you will see, on your right hand side "Create content" in green. This will lead you to "New Post", which will give you a few explanations and you will have then to go down to "Title". Here you write the name of your new thread, let's say "Roof Repairs". Then, you have a multiple choice for  topic and location. Then, you find "Tag" and here you insert some words which may help the search engine in case you or anyone else want to find information about this type of topic (i.e. roof, builder, repair......). You will also find "Groups", this is for those cases where you want your thread to appear in a specific Group, otherwise, the post will be Public. You will find then "Post body", and this is simply the space for the text you want to write to start the thread. Then you only have to press "Post" and it's done. You have started a thread. Members will see it and give you answers or comments. I suggest that you start a new thread for your roof problems. Otherwise, members will have difficulties finding this post under the wrong heading. Not difficult, it just takes a bit of practice as the format is different from the old one.

Anastasia was always nice - it was all the other names that got her into trouble Jeff, but at least she never feigned piety!  Trouble is, even she cant be bothered these days.

Esme/Anastasia, you must be pretty bored these days to try to come back here and try to cause havoc. Oh, well, you were always hovering... and I heard that you do not longer have your other forum... What a pity! My advice is not to recommence  here with your nasty personal attacks, both to have some fun and to keep your "followers" on their toes clapping. Those days are over. On the personal attack...Sanctimonious, me? I would not say so. You see, I can even agree with you on certain matters. On the other hand, you have no right to talk about my supposedly "feigned piety", and that is a personal attack. You do not know me and I do not accept the word "feigned" specially coming from you. I have never faked identities or used different names to disguise myself. I have never feigned to be nice to attract other people. Pious? Religion is important to me, but I do not use the Forum to preach others. So what I am is part of my private world and Flip and yourself are trespassing. Don't try to become personal and attack members as you have done consistently in the past. Those days are over. Grow up and accept it. I have nothing against your possible participation - if Admin agrees, they are the owners of this space and this is a commercial concern - providing that you don't go back to your antics and that you practice self-moderation. The question is: Can you do this?

Hi everyone, i am in a similar position to alma, I do not post very often as we have only fairly recently purchased a property in northern tuscany and live in the uk for most of the year so really I have very little to add concerning our experiences in Italy that has not been covered in depth by other members of the forum.I do however really enjoy reading the posts placed by others and find them on the whole very informative,many of my questions have been answered by searching the database.I do feel rather guilty and I will try to post more frequently - I must say that Gala must be congratulated by her quality of posting, she is always helpful and is a mine of information on many varied topics -well done.

Gala, where do I attack you or call you sanctimonious within this thread or anywhere else on this forum?   Show me where I speak of your feigned piety or even address you. My post was in reply to Jeff, not you!  Get over your self importance please.  You really need to take your own advice in not using nasty personal attacks against people without expecting it straight back at you.  The only person attacking anyone within this thread is YOU.  You attacked Flip and now you think it's fine to attack me with no recourse? Regarding "faked identities, tell me, is your real name Gala Placidia? You're seriously off your rocker these days woman, so let me tell you right here and right now that it bothers me not one jot if you have anything against my possible participation here or not, but the decision is not yours to make anyway!  You cant muzzle Flip, me or anyone else here - even if one angry robot post supports your stance. Get used to it.  However, all that said and done, it is a great shame this once vibrant forum has been destroyed and is limping along in this lack lustre way.  It would be excellent if someone could take it over and return it to its former glory.  Sadly, I doubt that will happen.

In reply to by Esme

Really this is not the place for personal attacks maybe a few people shoild take a deep breath, think about the things that are being said and realise how highly inappropriate this behaviour is. This behaviour really is not going to help to improve the vibrancy of the forum in fact it will probably put people off contributing at all.

Esme/Anastasia, please, do tell all of us: Who is to blame for the destruction of the old Forum? Who keeps on coming back and back again, using different "noms de plume", not to participate but to try to destroy again? Saffie, thank you for your comments. All this is most unpleasant. Unfortunately it has happened in the past. I am trying very hard to avoid a repetition of what took place before. Sprostoni, I do not know who you are (as you do not know me) and perhaps I suspected that you were part of the gang as your post in another thread reminded me of some that I had seen before. In that case, please accept my apologies, although I was never insulting. It is not my style. What we need is constructive input and this is a job for all members. No "personality cults" here. No gangs. No plotting. No insults. We can still have plenty of fun in harmony and discussion, in a mannerly form  is both estimulating and constructive. No need to muzzle anyone. Self-moderation is all what is needed. (I think that I have said it a million times). 

Sorry Pamela, you have been forgotten in this turmoil and nobody has answer your questions, so I will try to do it. Here is your original text: QUOTE: Don't know the history behind the various personal tensions here. Do know that it makes me a bit perplexed and uncomfortable to see people being negative or argumentative towards others online. Enough strife in the world without adding more. I appreciate contributions which are informative, amusing, personal... whatever. I can see that some people have a bigger presence than others and I thank those who take the time to give of themselves.  I have no idea what all this is about "admin" - who are they? What did they used to do that made the forum different? Was it better? Are they absent because for economic reasons they need to attend more to the money making side of Italymag and the forum in itself does not generate income? If so, that seems ok to me. Glad there are not ads flashing at me all over the place as I browse the forum.  UNQUOTE

  • "Admin", short for Administration, who is in charge of this site. The names of Ronald and Valentina are also used.
  • In the Old Forum, the Administration was more active and present. There were Moderators as well, who had to intervene quite frequently.
  • The Old Forum was better in content and there was quite a bit of participation; unfortunately, there were problems with some of the attacks we are currently seeing in the Community. I was not one of the people more affected by those. On the other hand some of the things said about certain members were simply not acceptable.
  • Apparently, there ware complaints from advertisers regarding some of this situation. Then, Italy Magazine stopped printing its hard copy and went online. I suppose that it had to do with the current economic climate and the fact that many publications are nowadays going on line. Whatever is the reason, I guess that there are less people to take care of a Forum or Community, which is a free service for our benefit and that, although it can add information and life to an online magazine, does not justify to have people looking after it, particularly trying to solve disputes that should not take place in the first instance.
  • I also agree with you, the fact that it is not an income producing section of the site makes it more pleasant to look at.

I trust that this will clarify some points for you.

"Esme/Anastasia, please, do tell all of us: Who is to blame for the destruction of the old Forum? Who keeps on coming back and back again, using different "noms de plume", not to participate but to try to destroy again." Who indeed?  The old forum was not "destroyed" except sadly by Ronald, who chose to self promote this terrible format as an excuse for a replacement.  I think it is now two years down the line and people still do not like this format, do not like the slowness of the site and they especially dislike the lack of Admin direction.  Regarding my various noms de plume;- this is none of your concern - you have no say on who posts here or who does not and there is nothing you can do about it - nor should you be able to - so get over it, stop attacking me and move on. You still can not show me or anyone else here where I attacked you, can you?  No, because I did not. You are the one who wants to continue this argument - it is a pointless battle and will only cause you further self inflicted discomfort - for no reason or benefit. As I said, you are the only one attacking anyone here, so please, just try to keep your malaise and bitterness hidden under your cloak sweetie.  smiley Ta very much.

Esme/Anastasia, I am not a bitter person and whatever you may say does not affect me. Anyone can tell you that it is clear that you are on the attack and that you twist words in order to justify your attitude. But then, this is your trademark. I do not mind you using different "noms de plume", but the reason for you to do that is that you have been banned from the Forum and the Community under other identities. But you keep on coming and you do not seem to learn from past errors. Regarding your remarks about the Administration and Ronald, you seem to forget that this is not a private site, but a commercial one. The owners of the site and their associates are the ones who do whatever they want with it. If they change a format and it does not convince the users, we can tell them, but it is up to them to do whatever they want. The Community does not belong to the members, we are just users of a free facility. As I said in a previous post, it was explained that the replacement of the Forum by the Community was seen as necessary by the Administration in order to clean up the image of the site that was attracting criticism and complaints from advertisers due to the continuous fighting. A very strict protocol regarding member ID was implemented. It does not seem to have been very effective, but then.... it is very difficult to monitor it. You had your own Forum and you were free to say there whatever you wanted. As far as I know, nobody from the Community went there to insult or cause havoc. If you, or any of your friends come here, we expect the same treatment and respect we gave you. We never posted derogatory texts against yourself or the others. Whenever new members (or old members who were unaware of what had been going on) were asking questions, we always gave vague responses. This is the first time (and I do hope the last one) that it is openly discussed.   

I can't let you get away with the assertion that anyone other than Ronald Ashri destroyed the 'old' forum. He had some misguided belief that he could, by way of an ill judged all singing all dancing bug infested user interface, turn himself into Zuckerberg, while simultaneously implementing a 'registration' process which made the early incarnation of Google+ seem positively welcoming! The old forum had certain social difficulties, but you, Gala, could quite easily have implemented the ignore button (maybe there is also one on this forum, which you have been clever enough to discover if you have succeded in concealing the posts from Flip and Esme). Having said that the techy change was a compete piece of imbecility, even the old forum would have been a pale shadow of its former self by now - a victim of the realisation that buying a dream home in Italy is not, and never was, the way to great riches.

Esme/Anastasia/not sure what to call you - I'm a relatively new member here and enjoy participating in this forum where "on the whole" there's very little personal attacks unlike other forums which sometimes just seem to be about some people "playing' other people. I gather you used to be a member,  I can't comment on the nature of your previous posts as I wasn't around then.  It may be that you have a wealth of experience/knowledge re Italy, if you do it would be great if you post it as I'm wanting to learn as much as I can about the country before I move - so far (though I may be wrong) I've not seen any other posts from you apart from these personal ones which aren't providing IMHO anything that will be useful for my future life in Italy - which for me is the purpose of my participation - with a view to soon being able to give back my experience/knowledge once I've moved 

Hi La Dolcevita. Pay no attention to what has transpired here, apparently we are all nasty vindictive trouble makers, who do not have the right to express our opinions only, except if it passes the 'Nice People' who have taken on the mantle of Censor and Moderator. I hope you get sensible useful answers to any questions you may have regarding Italy, although some people fain to have more knowledge than others on most subjects, we have a variety of helpful replies. Also there is a vast archive should you wish to look up a topic using the Search Facility. Don't worry about the Patronisation here it is some people way of making up for other inadequacies. Hope you enjoy it here.

Gala, they say a camel does not see its own hump so lets just leave it there and you can make of that what you will. La Dolcevita, you have been a member here longer than I have, so does that means I am a more "relatively new member " than you?  wink Whether or not I have the wealth of experience/knowledge re Italy that you seek I can only hope!  May I  suggest that should you require help on any topic that you post about it?  If I can help you, I certainly will - assuming of course, that my reply is deemed acceptable by the newly self appointed thought police and top poster. I look forward to your questions.

Most of us joined the Old Forum and then the Community for the same reasons that you had. In my case, quite a few years ago, I was searching for good information on Italy as I was house hunting at the time. I also had a keen interest and a bit of knowledge on Italian culture and I thought that I could make a positive contribution. Unfortunately, other people in the Forum had "fun" attacking other members and causing havoc. What you are seeing now is just a small sample of what was usual in the past. These people have been banned several times, but they keep on coming, under different identities but with the same twisted purpose. And now that they do not have their own Forum to vent their frustrations, they are trying to take over this one again or destroy it. I am not willing to allow this to happen. We want the Community to continue, but in an atmosphere of respect, goodwill and providing useful information and discussion for members to enjoy. Some of us think that Esme/Anastasia is the same person. We could even add Flip, as this person loves multiple personalities. My advice is not to fall for the sweet siren's song. I also endured it, but the minute you realise what is going on and you rebel against it, you become their target. Good luck with all your plans!

I think that at this stage you do not need moderation or censorship. You need to be exorcised or excommunicated. For this reason, I am stopping all communication with you. You can say whatever you want, I will not respond. I further believe that you have been exposed and you have shown what you are capable of doing. I rest my case.

Gala your persistence in falsely assuming what people are and do is gob smacking. To set the record straight I have NEVER been a member of this Forum under any assumed name, and quite frankly your arrogance to assert this is pure vitriol and lies. You should seriously look to your self over these xenophobic, poisonous comments. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU...... If you wish to act the Queen Bee on this forum then go ahead as it looks like attention seeking is what you desire. I think it is arrogant that you hope to turn people against others by writing false accusations, and if you were a bigger person I would expect some sort of apology, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. As for who Esme is/was I personally don't care, but be careful to check under the bed tonight as Halloween is approaching....

  Members’ individual posts are subjective and always open to personal interpretation. There's no question that the personal relationships we develop on a forum make a big difference in how certain posts are viewed by members but for me being a forum member is about thoughtful behaviour. This is our forum. It is every one’s responsibility to do whatever is called for to make it a happy and welcoming place. It is not something that just happens; it is something that we all make happen. ‘Admin’ are not solely responsible. I agree that someone should be responsible for establishing and monitoring posts, threads, articles, reviews etc, but all members are responsible for the success. Our contributions and responsibility as a member goes far beyond posting. Being part of a forum means interacting with other members.  And if all else fails…try sitting on your hands laugh

I don't think that I have ever criticised (certainly not knowingly) any content provided by another member on this Forum and have never felt the need to. If any member has concerns about content, the system or what another member raises, they should (as you say) not name call, just sit on their hands (no matter how 'regular' a poster they are !) Well done, hopefully those concerned can move on? S

[Quote = Gala Placida] I am not willing to allow this to happen [/Quote] It rather seems that Esme was right after all. By your own admission, you seem to have taken on the mantle of a self appointed school prefect. AKA Moderator. No?

"I think that at this stage you do not need moderation or censorship. You need to be exorcised or excommunicated. For this reason, I am stopping all communication with you. You can say whatever you want, I will not respond. I further believe that you have been exposed and you have shown what you are capable of doing. I rest my case." You have no case to rest - it's a figment of your imagination. You have no power here, not even self appointed, but for you, who claims to have great faith and be religious, to say anyone should be exorcised or excommunicated clearly displays a seriously warped and very shallow mindset.  By all means stop communication with me, I had no wish to communicate on this level with you anyway and nothing would please me more than to have a person with such twisted and blinkered tunnel vision stay as quiet and as far away as possible.  What was it that Sancho called you?  He was obviously right.

Now there's an Italian word that brings back a fun memory for me! Many, many moons ago, one of my Italian cousins came to visit here in the UK (also at a time when my Italian was even more limited than it is now) and so, on mammas instruction and hoping to entertain her one afternoon, my friends and I took her to the local Fairground.  With much hand signals, sign language and a fair few misunderstandings, my cousin eventually decided she wanted to ride on the Waltzers... She gingerly climbed into one of the Waltzer cars, pulled the safety bar down and waited for the ride to start.  The ride gathered pace and as the car began to spin faster and faster, her face turned pale, then green and she started screaming at the top of her lungs "Basta!  Basta!" The fairground attendant thought she was saying "Faster! Faster!" - so he obliged.  smiley

Now, now Neil, you must not thank me - you could be excommunicated as one of my "followers" if you're not careful.  wink Did I ever tell you the story about the one legged chicken called Gallina?