Too late- he's PM for 5 moreSubmitted by Bill on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 13:55
VOTINGSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 14:23
Gerbillo, you hit it on theSubmitted by Monica on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 04:48
In reply to VOTING by Anonymous (not verified)
THANK YOUSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 10:16
In reply to Gerbillo, you hit it on the by Monica
My Italian friend says peopleSubmitted by Angie and Robert on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 14:47
My Italian friend says people vote for him because they like the "jack the lad" image, hardly applies to Gordon. But did anyone see the clips on the South Korea and Checz fights today?. South Korea was a free for all and the Checz minister of health smacked another guy soundly around the head, so funny..... what a bunch of schoolboys in their playground!?A
FIGHTSSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 17:13
In reply to My Italian friend says people by Angie and Robert
hes about the only person in Italy that manages to get anything done... an open and honest crook ... with a pretty good sense of humour...historically what was the choice... a prodi gov with the communists pulling the strings... del pietro a certified lunatic... both names mentioned involved deeply in criminality of a darker shade than mr b... prodi had attempt made on the life of a magistrate inetigating him and both he and his family take zillions from the EU via so called research projects... let alone his vatican sponsorship...PD now is a lost cause... you tell me maybe who you would suggest runs the party ... then maybe it would be possible to say if i woiuld vote along with most Italians for berlusconi...a sure thing is that i wouldnt be voting in the last lot because they increased taxs to a degree that most Italians feel they cannot manage on their salaries... and raised costs of all services... increased regulations against open business and guaranteed a system of pensions that no other country in the world can afford... bring on more berlusconi... sick days in the comunes have reduced by a huge percentage... cause they now have to go to work or loose their jobs... Abuzzo has political leaders now that dont spend the hospital money in switzerland... investigations in the south as to why comunes have more employees than citizens... all services down in price..although tax remains the same...
"Open and honest crook" PorcaSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 09:20
"Open and honest crook" Porca miseria! You've been watching too much Mediaset lately (or RAI, or LA7). Unless, of course, you really ARE a fully paid up member of MSI? PS. If anyone doesn't understand this - Murdoch will fill you in with the details. As far as anyone thinking that Berlusconi has done anything for Italy or Italians (other than himself, friends and family) - you need to get your bumps felt. Innit.
In reply to "Open and honest crook" Porca by Anonymous (not verified)
they are just that you have yours... i have mine... its blatantley obvious that yours are wrong... but then thats normal ... you would do better to state your opinions on all subjects much more clearly so its easier to understand what exactely you mean... that way i might be tempted though doubtful to enter into a debate with you...
Sorry, Berlusconi's too cozySubmitted by Bill on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 10:42
bill ...a bit extremeSubmitted by adriatica on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 12:12
In reply to Sorry, Berlusconi's too cozy by Bill
the lega nord are not really as bad as they are made out to be... i sometimes think that this paranoia about their beliefs shows a certain lack of interest in what they are actually saying and or doing...basically a federalist party with a strong movement aimed at reducing the north of italies pay checks to the south... on immigrants they have a simple view that if you come to work and obey laws you are welcome...now although these views will tend to be seen as extreme to most of us... when they talk about sending the crimainals back...and maybe lack tolerance over human social problems i have a certain sympathy based on what has happened in most other european countries with regards to open doors and social support for imigrants... basically it seems a disater everywhere with ghettos/crime and national populations moving out and leaving them to it... hardly a solution...even some of the most liberal countries now are changing policies and have backlash extreme right wing groups doing well against liberal immigartion parties of the past...what italy seems to have achieved via its closed doors to all policy...ie you cannot get work here unless you were born here xcause you just cannot handle the paper work... is a smaller amount of dilution of its native population... not sure if thats good or bad... but it means its coming late to imigrant social problems having seen how every other country in europe got it wrong...political corretness not taking into account a the national popultaions resentment of imposed neighbours,lack of work and ghettoising city areas... their open door policy looked good in internbational terams but they never funded the schemes and so most people moving into countries not their own were seen as a drain...hence its all gone wrong... if berlusconi and the lega do things differentley... maintain a national Italian identity and preserve their way of life their heritage... tahts the popular way of describing things... and can still take in immigrant workers without the other problems they will have done better than most...that this is doubtful i will agree with you... that there is a diferent or better solution... where non nationals live in harmony with national populations and everyones happy.. well if you can show me the example then good for you and i will rethink .. as regards mussolini... well its long past ...although his trinkets still get sold around... but hes a very long way from any northern party the MSI is practically gone...and in fact was never really there.. but its also very little use talking about one side of Italian polotics without going into the reasons why they came about... and for that you need to start going through things from the post war years...the rigged sacking of the king and the communist parties power here...
If I was italian and ISubmitted by Annec on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 11:54
If I was italian and I thought Berlusconi would be voted in again I'd emigrate. He's done nothing for anyone but himself and doesn't even manage to do that with style. he is grotesque, and I only hope that , as in the States, the tide turns. I won't hold my breath though.
Putting it simply and, ISubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 12:36
Putting it simply and, I trust, clearly. If you were in the UK (I assume you aren't?) you would be on the list of BNP members recently released. It is not worth a sega talking any more to you about politics as you patently know absolutely nothing at all about either politics or, more importantly, Italian politics. You are just making yourself look rather dumb, in fact.
No doubt enthusiasticallySubmitted by Bill on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 13:18
No doubt enthusiastically agrees with Nick Griffin, BNP Europarliament MP:"If there's measures to set up some kind of force or to help, say the Italians, set up a force which actually blocks the Mediterranean then we'd support that. "But the only measure, sooner or later, which is going to stop immigration and stop large numbers of sub-Saharan Africans dying on the way to get over here is to get very tough with those coming over. "Frankly, they need to sink several of those boats. "Anyone coming up with measures like that we'll support but anything which is there as a 'oh, we need to do something about it' but in the end doing something about it means bringing them into Europe' we will oppose." The interviewer, BBC Correspondent Shirin Wheeler, said: "I don't think the EU is in the business of murdering people at sea." Mr Griffin replied: "I didn't say anyone should be murdered at sea - I say boats should be sunk, they can throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya. "But Europe has sooner or later to close its borders or its simply going to be swamped by the Third World."
Why bother?That might be theSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:25
Why bother?That might be the way you and a few others see it. Return to the Fascist and Nazi solutions, and then there will be fewer, or no 'clandestini' to worry about. Just bump 'em off before they get here - right?Well sorry, but I don't, and never have, harboured any xenophobic tendencies!
Tongue in cheek Carole. YouSubmitted by Bill on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:24
In reply to Why bother?That might be the by Anonymous (not verified)
Tongue in cheek Carole. You may have missed this above from Nick Griffin, BNP Europarliament MP:"If there's measures to set up some kind of force or to help, say the Italians, set up a force which actually blocks the Mediterranean then we'd support that. "But the only measure, sooner or later, which is going to stop immigration and stop large numbers of sub-Saharan Africans dying on the way to get over here is to get very tough with those coming over. "Frankly, they need to sink several of those boats. "Anyone coming up with measures like that we'll support but anything which is there as a 'oh, we need to do something about it' but in the end doing something about it means bringing them into Europe' we will oppose." The interviewer, BBC Correspondent Shirin Wheeler, said: "I don't think the EU is in the business of murdering people at sea." Mr Griffin replied: "I didn't say anyone should be murdered at sea - I say boats should be sunk, they can throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya. "But Europe has sooner or later to close its borders or its simply going to be swamped by the Third World."
Miss it? No I didn't missSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:10
In reply to Tongue in cheek Carole. You by Bill
That's fine, but pleaseSubmitted by Bill on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 01:56
In reply to Miss it? No I didn't miss by Anonymous (not verified)
vote for silvio?Submitted by elliven on Sun, 07/26/2009 - 17:17
The problem with abolishingSubmitted by Bill on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 03:48
In reply to vote for silvio? by elliven
It's usually called buyingSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 05:49
Berla? Never! The fact thatSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 07:34
Berla? Never! The fact that the majority of Italians who voted for the man(buffoon?) seem totally incapable of seeing through his ploys and self interest, that shows in all he does, remains a mystery to me. Those who feel cheated by, or are aware that many of his promises aren't worth the paper they're written on, DIDN'T vote for him. Trouble was - they didn't vote for anyone else either! Prodi shot himself in the foot when Italians thought he said he would tax their savings (but did he actually say that? Well Berla said he did...).IMHO Berla played the Lega Nord card to enable him to present a possible coalition government to the President. He knew what their 'policies' were! I think he knew exactly what the LN would be like as political bedfellows... They would make him look to be the, as ever, 'good guy' while they promoted the unpopular laws on immigration which he clearly agrees with, but would rather not be seen to be 'directly' involved with. But in the meantime he can prance around ensuring that his selected, but totally unsuitable beautiful people are elected by his blind followers and that they will help to ensure his parliamentary power as Italy's Premier and to support, vote for and ratify his policies on the Senate floor! Trouble is - so far it's worked... he's running round grinning like a 'pig in the proverbial', while Europe and much of the remainder of the World - well those who give a damn about Italy that is - cannot believe what is happening here. The immigrants need to be stopped before they get in those boats or on those trains. Somebody needs to go to these third world countries and tell them that it is their responsibility to look after their own -IT IS NOT DOWN TO THE TAXPAYERS IN EUROPE TO DO SO!
"The immigrants need to beSubmitted by Bill on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 12:35
In reply to Berla? Never! The fact that by Anonymous (not verified)
It reminds me of watching the men with the 3 walnut shells and the pea at Portaportese market. The first time I saw this, I watched the shells being swapped around and I noticed the guy palm the pea. It seemed to me to be badly done and I thought at first that it was part of the act. Then punter bet and obviously lost. I continued to watch for a few more times and he did the same thing every time. But what amazed me most was not the fact that he was doing it, but the fact that no one else in the crowd had seen anything. He was cheating in front of everyone and not very well, but he was getting away with it!! Now I imagine having a nightmare where Belusconi plays with his nuts, the whole of Italy watching, I'm screaming not to place a bet and no one can hear me. It's even worse than the one with the giant spider Mark
An interesting point raisedSubmitted by Angie and Robert on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 08:55
An interesting point raised by Carole regarding immigrants, which those of us from the UK living here are.UNESCO defines a migrant as someone not living in their country of birth and who has moved for a wide variety of reasons, social, economic, political. Many move and expect to return, many work to send home money to families in their country of birth. Talking to Italian friends they say that much of the work Italians no longer wish to do for example building work is carried out by nationals of another state, perhaps we could compare this with health workers in the UK?. There was post 2nd ww many Italians moving to the UK, America and Argentina, all looking for a better life for themselves and family. Perhaps we need to remember this when the issue of immigration is raised and view it with a more humanitarian eye.A
An interesting point raisedSubmitted by Angie and Robert on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 08:58
Apologies accepted. Again...Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 09:52
Any party that puts out an election poster with a picture of an American Indian in full feather headgear with the line: "they did not control their immigration, now they live in reservations" is highly dubious to me. Are they suggesting that Italians will soon be living in reservations? Italy is now the country with the lowest birth rate in Europe. Who'll be paying their pensions if their weren't immgrants?And Berlusconi is in league with them, he strikes as more of a clown as 'W' and that's something. You'd expect a reasonably serious statesman from one of the main players in Europe.
NO!And I'm continuallySubmitted by myabruzzohome on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 04:46
NO!And I'm continually surprised by the strength of feeling against this man among many Italians. Our plummer spotting my 'collage' of Berlusconi newspaper clippings on our Kitchen wall insisted on shaking my hand for a very long time!!!( didnt offer to knock any money off my preventivo BTW)What short memories we Europeans,we know what happens when we make any race or culture the scapegoat for our economic woes and here we go again with BNP, Lega Nord etc etc
In reply to NO!And I'm continually by myabruzzohome
Benefit of your advice...Submitted by MichaelM on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:08
I would be very interested to know what advice the 'very critical' British Expats living here in Italy (or perhaps the holiday visitors) would like to give the elected Government regarding the way this country is run. As I remember it, the Prodi Government was elected a few years ago and became extremely unpopular over the following months, leading to its swift collapse - but perhaps my Italian wasn't good enough to understand what was really going on. Perhaps it was a conspiracy and the majority of Italians really wanted him to carry on but just didn't show it... Anyway, having subsequently won a sizeable majority, the current Government seems to have created a great deal of negative feeling on this thread regarding its inept handling of all sorts of issues. Obviously, those critics have their own ideas as to how this Government could handle things better. It would be interesting to hear some of those 'specific' ideas... Perhaps everybody on this forum believes the way the British press represent Berlusconi and Italy generally. Perhaps they prefer the way that the British Government manage things... perhaps they don't really like the social structure of this country at all, they just like the weather, the food and the scenery and would prefer to import all other aspects of Britain over here. In the Uk, the last Labour Goverment was elected with 35.3% of the vote. Berlusconi was elected with a 46.8% majority. That is very nearly one out of every two voters. Where are they all I wonder? Perhaps they are all hiding and can't wait to get rid of him. (Although apparantly his popularity rating is even higher now) However, it obviously means that 53.2% would have preferred someone else or didn't care. But I wonder if that percentage includes the people who live in L'Aquilla, the people who live in Lampedusa or the people who live in the outskirts of Napoli. But what do all the British Expats in the north of Italy think? That is obviously the most important thing!
I don't object to the GovermentSubmitted by Mark on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 04:12
In reply to Benefit of your advice... by MichaelM
Just to Berlusconi.The guy just puts my teeth on edge. He spends all his time lining his own pocket and trying to look good. I always assumed that if you get off on a technicality it meant that there was a good chance you were guilty. Here it is taken as not guilty?
I would definitely vote forSubmitted by Capo Boi on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:19
I would definitely vote for him and I make no apologies but purely out of self interest. Two years ago Sardinia came very close to bringing in a tax on second homes. This actually would not have affected us as we have residency, but non residents would have had to pay an annual tax of between €11 and €16 per square metre on the floor space of their house. Berlusconi veoted this. Yes he would have had to pay something like €130,000 per year himself (because although he is Italian he is non-resident in Sardinia) and his brother even more. Obviously this is a drop in the ocean to him but the big fear was that other Italian regions would follow suit. For people on here, can you imagine if Tuscany, Marche and Abruzzo followed? This was a very real threat.
Personally I don't see aSubmitted by Bill on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 01:10
In reply to I would definitely vote for by Capo Boi
Personally I don't see a problem with taxing second homes in Italy. It's a luxury, like owning a yacht. If you can afford a vacation home, then you should help support the local government provide roads, police protection, social services, schools, etc. Always been amazed how a poor man will you give you the shirt off his back, but greedy rich blighters demand change back from tuppence.
support your local sheriffSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 02:49
In reply to Personally I don't see a by Bill
Why no right to vote?Submitted by Heiko on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 12:15
I am in the unfortunate position that I have never been allowed to vote in national elections, just because I insist on hanging on to my Dutch passport but have spent all my adult life outside the Netherlands (Germany, Usa, India, UK and now Italy). Why am I not allowed to vote? I am a legal resident here and what the government does has direct implications on my life. This obviously not an Italy specific thing, but highly undemocratic in my view. In the UK I was even a co-founder of a political party (the Green Party of Northern Ireland, which still exists), but could not vote for them. Anyone can give me a good reason why?
Voting rights for the ItalianSubmitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 13:30
In reply to Why no right to vote? by Heiko
Voting rights for the Italian Senate and Chamber of Deputies in National elections are afforded to Italian citizens only. As a member of the EU you can vote in European Parliament elections here, but you must register with you local comune to be able to do so. You are also entitled, as a resident, to vote in your 'local Comune' elections, but once again, to do so you must register.You are entitled to a parliamentary postal vote in the country where you are a citizen - but as with any voting rights at any level - you must be registered to be able to do so!
I'm aware of the facts, butSubmitted by Heiko on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 17:21
I'm aware of the facts, but still don't know why I'm not allowed to vote in national elections. Decisions of the government do affect me. In the UK I always found it ironic that any member of a Commonwealth Country or Eire is allowed to vote, but not me as a European national. Modern links surely are closer between the UK and Europe than between the UK and say Kenya. I know I digress from the subject.
Interesting PollSubmitted by Postmac on Thu, 03/04/2010 - 17:21
Just saw this report on a recent poll carried out in Italy. Thought it made interesting reading although the sample was quite small.Apparently, one out of four Italians are ashamed of their country and one out of two feel there is reason to be embarassed about Italy. Carried out by Renato Mannheimer's ISPO group on a cross section of 800 Italians, the poll found that 69% were proud to be Italian, 33% felt the state was something distant from them and 25% said they were ashamed to be Italian. Topping the list of reasons why one out of two Italians said there was cause to be embarassed were the country's politicians and mentality. Is this the influence of Mr. B or is it that he's probably not alone?
In another country?Submitted by Mark on Fri, 03/05/2010 - 06:44
Doplomazia.Submitted by Beeryspice on Mon, 03/08/2010 - 06:29
Why do 'foreigners' always confuse Berlusconi with the British Conservative party? They are nothing like each other at all. One is a party of criminals, the other is a political party. In other words, as an Italian citizen that will be voting in both the regional elections and, when the time comes, the national elections, I can say; "no way". Beery.