Hi. If you are using oldSubmitted by Diana in Piemonte on Fri, 03/29/2013 - 15:52
Hi. If you are using old or even new (but made to look old) "coppi", they can be 1 - 2 euro a piece, whereas there are less expensive tile choices available. Are there tiles present on the house? Can they be saved and reused? That's the first thing. Second, what style roof is it? Will there be cathedral ceilings inside the house (I am assuming yes if you are using the perline wood liners)? What kind of system of insulation will you be using? The insulation makes a monstrous difference in the price, especially if this is a cathedral ceiling. But the higher quality the insulation, the less heat loss you will have. New supporting beams? The house has 250 sm on one floor? Is the roof steeply pitched? The pitch will alter the square meters you'll need to calculate. Are you having a cordulo of reinforced cement poured to secure the base of the roof (this is pretty much required by law now, I think. The costs can vary greatly. Is the rest of the house being insulated? If so, you'll want a high quality roof to make the house tight. If not, then you'll need to be heating a lot regardless of what you put into the roof. You can probably spend as little as 50 or as much as 100 for a square meter, before taxes. With our last roof, I think we paid around 90 a square meter in 2010 - I'd have to double check my records. We got the insulation from Austria, the highest grade possible, have all antique coppi and the main beam is massive. It's a beautiful roof. It breathes beautifully. We have another roof where we paid less that's not nearly the quality, so we didn't regret spending the money.
Thank you for yourSubmitted by grazie on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 04:20
In reply to Hi. If you are using old by Diana in Piemonte
Thank you for your interesting comments. The roof is standard low pitched Piedmontese tile roof in generally excellent condition but not waterproofed or insulated. The odd batten will be replaced but that is it. We will be able to reuse most of the tiles. We will use high quality roof insulation. The ceilings are the standard semi curved design made of brick. The roof does not need reinforcing. The house will be renovated bit by bit but it is a huge exciting project. The roof is the main renovation point and must be done to a high standard as a huge amount of heat can be lost through it. We will also have a solar panel system fitted at the same time.
We paid a couple of years ago while doing a complete refurb, prices supply and install: New cotto tiles, marsigliese not coppi because too windy here - €30/m2 Waterproof layer plus 8cm Styrodur insulation - €26/m2 Our roof had a reinforced (steel mesh) screed and the underside were pianelle rather than timber
roofSubmitted by sebastiano on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 05:24
hi,yes,i agree with whats been said.and certainly if you're not having to change main beams,most tiles etcc that'll make a difference to the price positively be aware hower that the roof has anyway to be completely stripped scaffolding erected with a regulamentary walk way round the whole roof with a drape of netting (health and safety) which is quite a serious cost. Make sure everything is done to rules including a full invoice including VAT...Roofs are visible and the "building site" could well be visited by the authorities to check the builders are"regular and above board",the invoice also provides you with legal proof that a certain job was done and paid for.it always amazes me how many people think they are being clever/shrewd and "doing it the italian way (?)" getting in some jobbing builder,paying in the black and then not being able to have any legal recourse when the roof leaks after a month.make sure the estimate is absolutely itemized indicating ALL phases of the task,cost per square metre of every task,the exact dimensions of the roof,timing etc signed off by the builders and you with a state of the art requisite along with conformity clause to all existing legislation.it sounds like your geometra is ok he should be able to take you thru the estimate,explain and check the prices are within the parameters of the regional price "list" for building works.
# roofSubmitted by sebastiano on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 05:28
In reply to roof by sebastiano
i just saw your part concerning solar panels make sure the timing of their installation preceeds the final finish of the builders so you can exploit the presence of the scaffolding before they take it down it'll avoid further costs and solar panel people clambering around breaking newly placed tiles,it'll probably only be a question of a day or two maximum and a good relation with the builders will help with that..
roofSubmitted by Diana in Piemonte on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 12:17
Please note that you'll lose heat through the walls - a great amount - if you don't insulate them. These old stone structures hold moisture and you can go through untold amounts of propane, wood, pellets trying to get the moisture out. Your panels will heat your water to approx. 32 degrees centigrade, and in the wintere that will help in giving you a percentage of your floor heating needs (if you choose to go that route), but even with that boost, the heating costs to make the interiors really comfortable will be prohibitive if the walls are not insulated. There are two ways of doing this - insulating from the inside, meaning adding an interior wall with a space in between it and the inside of the exterior wall for air and insulation, or you can pack insulation onto the exterior - there are new systems for doing this that work well. Of course, this is assuming you'll be here all year round. We've lived in Piedmont for 9 years. I can tell you from experience -- we have one uninsulated structure and two fully insulated ones. The feel of the spaces are entirely different where we fully insulated. If you plan on being here year round, I can only suggest that you insulate the entire house. Sebastiano makes a really good point. If you are going to touch the roof, you need a permit. And as a result, you might have to do works you don't feel are necessary - like the concrete or metal screed to square off the building. So much depends on your Comune and how they view your restoration. (I am so sensitive to this stupid screed thing because of being forced to do two of them). They might let you get away with a SIA (a quick approval of the works) or require you to submit a progetto (a complete laying out of plans for approval). You are brave for taking on a project like this and I wish you the best of luck. I promise, in a couple of weeks, it will be just beautiful here -- hang in tight!!
Roof in PiedmontSubmitted by julia G. on Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:55
In reply to roof by Diana in Piemonte
Hi Diana We are also just commencing on a refurbishment project in Piedmont ( I think we are truly mad when I read all this) We have had many quotes re the roof basically it is important to get everything included and listed as there is always a surprise !!. I noted your comment re restoration IVA being 10% how can I get this confirmed as I had presumed that it was to be 21% plus the workers tax etc . Maybe I am confused. I would appreciate any help on this. Certainly in our area we have had to have the concrete re inforcement. Scaffolding is a huge cost we even considered buying in the uk and transporting over. (I am sure there is a business opening here)
Julia, What is your costSubmitted by grazie on Thu, 04/04/2013 - 03:33
In reply to Roof in Piedmont by julia G.
one more thingSubmitted by Diana in Piemonte on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 12:17
You'll be required to have whatever builder you choose submit a DURC - which is basically proof that he's up to date with his payroll taxes and is legal. This is such a pain because it means choosing a builder BEFORE the permits are final rather than after, and locking you in to said dude because he's the one the Comune has approved. This change happened about 2 years ago. It's a big hassle here in Piemonte and I can't even tell you if it's limited just to Acqui Terme, where we are -- I assume it's throughout the region. High quality trades are worth their weight in gold. I have my little "team" that we assembled of trades after years of heartache and suffering. They work well together, are all smart, above board, ar honest, have insurance, and get the job done on time and on budget. None of them ask to work "black". I am sure they wouldn't mind, but we do it on invoice, as with restoration the IVA is only 10% in any event. It took me 6 years to get this group together. I would not do another restoration in Piedmont without them. So it's all about finding good people. Best of luck.
Thanks againSubmitted by grazie on Sat, 03/30/2013 - 14:41
In reply to one more thing by Diana in Piemonte
Very useful comments again. For the last eight years we have been searching for this house. During this time we have built up a list of contacts and extensive local knowledge so we know that it is important to do things correctly and more or less the pitfalls. I also know a great deal about building structure etc which will be useful along with the experience of project managing many previous projects, but none in Italy. This project will be exciting but the house is perfectly habitable and is not a wreck. We will also make sure that we do everything according to law.
YOu can also insulateSubmitted by Penny on Sun, 03/31/2013 - 16:26
external insulationSubmitted by montana stroud on Mon, 04/01/2013 - 14:16
Welcome to the Monferrato region Grazie. We also have a place here, and after a couple of years of standstill, we are looking to get cracking again. Like yours, it is liveable, but needs a heck of a lot of work to get it to how we would like it! Best of luck in your endeavours. Done a few bits and bobs ourselves, but saving up for the big things so cannot help by recommending too many trades just yet in our little area. Diana - being cheeky, am wondering which external insulation system you may be thinking of. We will have to replace the intonico around the house as it is crumbling in so many places, and it makes sense to do the insulation on the outside at the same time, as you are correct in your comment that the weather can be perishing, and with temperatures last year pushing -30 in the winter for a few days, so anything to keep the heat in is sensible on the wallet as well as the body! We've looked into a couple of options but were wondering what you may have come across to compare it as a viable option? with thanks