The English text of the Proposal for this new Regulation has just been published. This will put to rest most of the dispute and conflict between different European laws on succession.
I have recieved this query which I am posting to start off a debate perhaps with people in similar situations:" I am resident in Italy as from April this year/wife becoming resident later this year.
This was a question from another member in another thread, I though it was worth starting a discussion on this point:"I understand if you are renting your property to a person who is elderly(or maybe there is no age limit) you cannot force them t
The 2005 Green Paper on Wills and Succession recommended that the conflicting succession rules in many European countries should be harmonised by a new EU Regulation.A Regulation is a European law which is directly applicable to all member states,
We went there last August, it was breathtaking, I have never seen anything like it. The story of how it was discovered was fascinating, how some walkers found a hole in the ground and came back with a rope, and plunged down into this incredible underground world. The creamy colours of the stalactites and stalacmites against the lighting make it a seem a real wonderland. You get bussed up to it from a car park fully of tacky stalls, and then the tour takes about an hour. Have fun!
It does contain some general comments. This circular is based on new European Commission guidelines so is applicable to any member state.It confirms that the health cover can be taken out in any member state and must be complete so that there will be no burden on public funds on the host country.Be prepared if your health cover is not taken out in Italy to have to translate it.Charlotte
Can you ask the ASL for their written reasons within 7 days? You will have to face them again to do this, but can tell them that their reasons wil be sent to the Marche Region and the Ministero dell'Interno and Ministero della Salute.
Penny that's so infuriating!Could you draft a letter in English setting out the facts ie when you moved to Italy, when you were granted the attestation of permanent residence, when you applied to the Health Service etc. I will check the law and translate it.Charlotte
The basic answer is simple - your UK wills which deal with all your worldwide property are perfectly valid in the UK and Italy.English law will apply to your succession. English law (freedom of disposition) allows common law partners to leave their estate to one another (an Italian citizen would not be able to do this).The ping pong situation (ie the rights to the Italian property) could be raised by a person who challenged your will, but it is impossible to predict how a court would deal with this, it would turn on its own facts, but it is highly UNLIKELY that a claim would succeed.If you are deemed domiciled in the UK, IHT will be charged on your worldwide assets. Italian IHT will also be charged on the Italian property but you would reclaim this from the IHT paid in the UK under the double taxation treaty.It is sometimes preferable to have a separate Italian will, in Italian, to enable the probate procedure in Italy to be dealt with more efficiently by your heirs. However you can leave things as they are and still have peace of mind.Charlotte
I think you wil have to go to Sicily, collect all the documentation, and instruct a lawyer there to represent you and your monther's interests. You will need to find out the full history of the "issue" with the land, who it involves, who is obstructing it and find out whether you can possibly request a legal division of the property. To do this may take you another 2 or 3 years but at least you will then be in control of the situation.
Hello Kenny, eight years is a very long time for a succession procedure, even in Italy. It would have delayed things possibly by a couple of years only having a will made in the UK, and having to translate it and deposit it here. As long as a deuncia di successione was made this can be used to transfer the legal title of the land and property into the heirs' names. Can you get hold of a copy of this?
Ram is right that the safest thing you can do is ensure both you and your partners have wills. If you are British citizens, you are entitled leave what you like to who you like in a will, even your Italian property. If you are British citizens but die without leaving a will, English law of intestacy will apply, which is slightly different to Italian intestacy law and usually does not reach the 3rd cousin twice removed. The UK government would get hold of the estate before it got that far!Italian citizens would not have this freedom, if they died without a will the common law partner would get nothing, and Italian intestacy law would apply. if they did make a will, they would be forced to leave a large proportion of the estate to the "legitimate heirs", which could be for example previous wife (if not divorced) and children. The common law partner may end up with a third or a quarter share (la quota disponibile). If they were left more than this, the legitimate heirs would certainly challenge the will and claim their legal share.There may be cases where partners do not wish to leave the property owned by one, to the other in their will, perhaps as they have children from a previous marriage. They could set up a right of "usufrutto" before a Notary for the partner to have the right to live unchallenged in the property for the rest of their lives, even if the children/heirs later decided to sell on the nuda proprieta leaving them in residence.
Hi Pilchard. Good question. Would any one like to volunteer to start a new thread on "inheritance rights of common law partners"? I think this thread is deviating a bit from the topic of new EU law...!
In reply to Gerbillo, Italian succession law (ie the division of the estate into strict quotas between close relatives whether or not there is a will) applies to Italian citizens AND can apply to non-Italians who are resident in Italy, whether or not they have property in Italy, if they have chosen expressly in their will that Italian law should to apply to their succession.
Comments posted
We went there last August, it was breathtaking, I have never seen anything like it. The story of how it was discovered was fascinating, how some walkers found a hole in the ground and came back with a rope, and plunged down into this incredible underground world. The creamy colours of the stalactites and stalacmites against the lighting make it a seem a real wonderland. You get bussed up to it from a car park fully of tacky stalls, and then the tour takes about an hour. Have fun!
It does contain some general comments. This circular is based on new European Commission guidelines so is applicable to any member state.It confirms that the health cover can be taken out in any member state and must be complete so that there will be no burden on public funds on the host country.Be prepared if your health cover is not taken out in Italy to have to translate it.Charlotte
Can you ask the ASL for their written reasons within 7 days? You will have to face them again to do this, but can tell them that their reasons wil be sent to the Marche Region and the Ministero dell'Interno and Ministero della Salute.
Penny that's so infuriating!Could you draft a letter in English setting out the facts ie when you moved to Italy, when you were granted the attestation of permanent residence, when you applied to the Health Service etc. I will check the law and translate it.Charlotte
The basic answer is simple - your UK wills which deal with all your worldwide property are perfectly valid in the UK and Italy.English law will apply to your succession. English law (freedom of disposition) allows common law partners to leave their estate to one another (an Italian citizen would not be able to do this).The ping pong situation (ie the rights to the Italian property) could be raised by a person who challenged your will, but it is impossible to predict how a court would deal with this, it would turn on its own facts, but it is highly UNLIKELY that a claim would succeed.If you are deemed domiciled in the UK, IHT will be charged on your worldwide assets. Italian IHT will also be charged on the Italian property but you would reclaim this from the IHT paid in the UK under the double taxation treaty.It is sometimes preferable to have a separate Italian will, in Italian, to enable the probate procedure in Italy to be dealt with more efficiently by your heirs. However you can leave things as they are and still have peace of mind.Charlotte
I think you wil have to go to Sicily, collect all the documentation, and instruct a lawyer there to represent you and your monther's interests. You will need to find out the full history of the "issue" with the land, who it involves, who is obstructing it and find out whether you can possibly request a legal division of the property. To do this may take you another 2 or 3 years but at least you will then be in control of the situation.
Hello Kenny, eight years is a very long time for a succession procedure, even in Italy. It would have delayed things possibly by a couple of years only having a will made in the UK, and having to translate it and deposit it here. As long as a deuncia di successione was made this can be used to transfer the legal title of the land and property into the heirs' names. Can you get hold of a copy of this?
Ram is right that the safest thing you can do is ensure both you and your partners have wills. If you are British citizens, you are entitled leave what you like to who you like in a will, even your Italian property. If you are British citizens but die without leaving a will, English law of intestacy will apply, which is slightly different to Italian intestacy law and usually does not reach the 3rd cousin twice removed. The UK government would get hold of the estate before it got that far!Italian citizens would not have this freedom, if they died without a will the common law partner would get nothing, and Italian intestacy law would apply. if they did make a will, they would be forced to leave a large proportion of the estate to the "legitimate heirs", which could be for example previous wife (if not divorced) and children. The common law partner may end up with a third or a quarter share (la quota disponibile). If they were left more than this, the legitimate heirs would certainly challenge the will and claim their legal share.There may be cases where partners do not wish to leave the property owned by one, to the other in their will, perhaps as they have children from a previous marriage. They could set up a right of "usufrutto" before a Notary for the partner to have the right to live unchallenged in the property for the rest of their lives, even if the children/heirs later decided to sell on the nuda proprieta leaving them in residence.
Hi Pilchard. Good question. Would any one like to volunteer to start a new thread on "inheritance rights of common law partners"? I think this thread is deviating a bit from the topic of new EU law...!
In reply to Gerbillo, Italian succession law (ie the division of the estate into strict quotas between close relatives whether or not there is a will) applies to Italian citizens AND can apply to non-Italians who are resident in Italy, whether or not they have property in Italy, if they have chosen expressly in their will that Italian law should to apply to their succession.