12400 Part 2. Moderator Decisions and bias: Italy Magazine

So Marc - do I detect a touch of 'deja vu'? Weren't you and I here as recently as March?

I mean how much do you think we can take of this bias towards those who are being ignored when we continuously raise queries about the comportment of certain others on this site.

I find it very difficult [U][I]not[/I][/U] to retaliate or be disillusioned when I see that certain people are clearly heard [B][I]instantly[/I][/B] and others of us are ignored in what seems to be a concerted approach in the hopes that we will just give up or go away. Where is the [U][I]fair and equitable[/I][/U] treatment on this site?

You must be aware of the unrest that is bubbling over here. It cannot - or should not - be ignored. Many of your stable and regular posters are (if not direct participants) supporters of the dissatisfaction demonstrated by us over the entire fund raising issue - an issue which 'that lady' (she has forbidden me to use her name) continually tried to, if not de-rail, then interrupt and take off topic at the cost of those earthquake victims and for her own personal vendetta against the person/people who were running that admirable initiative.

You really do need your heads testing. Your bias is no longer funny or tolerable, and to save you the trouble of banning me too, I'm going on a two day self inflicted ban to support JC who has given more to this forum, the membership and those earthquake victims than 'that lady' has EVER GIVEN TO ANYONE!

I shall await your comment and views on this open post and then I will join JC in the cells for the duration of her ban!

Category

Circolo di Conversazione

There are two issues here. I have huge admiration for the contribution that JC and others have made in creating the earthquake appeal and also, indirectly, to the good standing of Italy magazine and the Forums. But, even though we think cut people some slack on this, it does not give anyone the right to post abusive comments. Both Neilo and Juliancoll have been here long enough to know what will and what will not be tolerated here and what the sanctions are for stepping over the line. I really hope that all this good work will not be negated by the bitterness that brews up when this happens.

Marc - with respect,

IMHO I think on this occasion it is you who is stepping over the line.

[quote=Marc;120306]There are two issues here. I have huge admiration for the contribution that JC and others have made in creating the earthquake appeal and also, indirectly, to the good standing of Italy magazine and the Forums. But, even though we think cut people some slack on this, it does not give anyone the right to post abusive comments. Both Neilo and Juliancoll have been here long enough to know what will and what will not be tolerated here and what the sanctions are for stepping over the line. I really hope that all this good work will not be negated by the bitterness that brews up when this happens.[/quote]

Marc,

I think this could do with rephrasing - at no point have I seen ANY abusive comments by Neilo but the way you have worded this could lead to people thinking that Neilo has posted something abusive about another member?

Also, could tell me why you didn't move the posts to the Circolo instead of deleting them?

What did this awful JC character actually post Marc?

It wasn't the post where JC said that Sally Donaldsons post was "silly and stupid" was it?

No, it couldn't be that post as that was not "attacking another member", because that was JC stating an opinion that JC thought Sally Donaldsons POST was "silly and stupid" - wasn't it?

If you didn't ban JC for having an opinion about a POST - then which post did you ban JC for? Seems to me that unless you can produce the post where JC "attacked another member" you're on a bit of a loser here sweetie. :bigergrin:

Lets put this nice and simple. If there is a God, he most certainly would not be a moderator on this or any other site.
Therefore for anyone to believe they have god like skills to delve deep into another posters mind and know exactly what they are thinking, rather than what words they are writing,means surely one of two things. They are completely out of order, or David IKE, out of their minds!

[quote=giovanni;120341]Lets put this nice and simple. If there is a God, he most certainly would not be a moderator on this or any other site.
Therefore for anyone to believe they have god like skills to delve deep into another posters mind and know exactly what they are thinking, rather than what words they are writing,means surely one of two things. They are completely out of order, or David IKE, out of their minds![/quote]

David Icke has asked me to point out to you that your post could appear to be implying that he, David, is out of his mind. This is patently rubbish: you only need look at me and all my fellow lizards - amongst whom we may well consider the litiginous Mr Clifford. It is a gratuitous attack on a great historian, and your post should be deleted.

Yours, Philip (HRrumphH)

I (respectfully) beg to differ.

The post which you reacted to with a rapid knee jerk, was in fact stating the truth. The wording chosen by the poster was bordering on libellous and as such wasn't just silly - it was in fact [U]EXCEPTIONALLY[/U] STUPID.

This fact can be argued on three points:

[LIST=1]
[*]It was stated that a lawyer had discussed a clients [I]confidential[/I] business with the individual.
[*]The name of an international company was coupled with the accusation - supposedly made by the lawyer - that one of their products was, in effect, not fit for purpose.
[*]Within minutes the poster had realised their dangerous predicament and had rapidly removed the possibly illegal use of the name of the company.
[/LIST]

Now that action and the action of editing the post in question, effectively removed ANY argument that may have been made by the poster, and by yourself, that this was an attack on that PERSON!

Double standards are a stock in trade of the individual in question. It has taken me several years to realise this and to come to terms with the fact that I was used in that 'game'. But no more... I, like others, will argue against this form of manipulation and refusal to discuss any form of solution to this ongoing problem.

In the light of this I would - again respectfully - ask you to remove the ban on Juliancoll and reinstate hers (and others) posts on that thread where they clearly have a right to be.

Gotta give it to CaroleB Marc - she's written a very valid post above. Grab the bull by the horns, beg forgiveness for the errors of your unrelenting biased ways and unban JC so we can all get on with the next disagreement. This one really must be quite embarrassing for you now. Come on Marc, you know it makes sense and no one will hold it against you if you stop doing what you've been doing recently, we all make arses of ourselves from time to time.

[quote=Carole B;120347]I (respectfully) beg to differ.

There are [B]NOT[/B] two 'issues' here but two 'standards'! That is what you seem totally incapable of explaining to the individual who, it appears, clearly has your ear (within minutes) every time she hits the Alert Button following yet another "percieved attack"...
[B]
The post which you reacted to with a rapid knee jerk, was in fact stating the truth. The wording chosen by the poster was bordering on libellous and as such wasn't just silly - it was in fact [U]EXCEPTIONALLY[/U] STUPID.

This fact can be argued on three points:

Now that action and the action of editing the post in question, effectively removed ANY argument that may have been made by the poster, and by yourself, that this was an attack on that PERSON!

In the light of this I would - again respectfully - ask you to remove the ban on Juliancoll and reinstate hers (and others) posts on that thread where they clearly have a right to be.[/quote]

I have to agree with JulianColl and CaroleB on this one, unless Sally and/or her solicitor friend can stand over the words that sally posted regarding the quality of tescos olive oil, (if neccessary in a court of law) then not only was it not only silly and incredibly stupid it could also be damaging to both her and Italy Mag Forum ( who hosted her comment) if Tescos were to get to hear about it and decided to make an issue about it to "protect their good name"
And favouring a bias towards sally by deleting Juliancolls post and banning her, when all she was doing was highlighting the crassness of sallys original post is actually shortsighted, foolish and counterproductive. Believe me, when I say that... because I have been a successful plaintiff in a High Court action some years ago.
Of course I could be talking total bull, and sally and/or her solicitor friend could have all the evidence they need to justify her allegation... and prove it to a juries satisfaction.... that a multi-billion pound company household name like Tesco is doing what they claim it is doing. Personally I have never had a problem with their (Tescos) Olive Oil. :bigergrin:
However even if sally and/or her solicitor friend [B]can [/B] prove this to a courts satisfaction, then it is still unfair, unjust and wrong to punish juliancoll for warning her of the possible results of her actions.
if you want to ban me for saying this then be my guest, personally I haven't much time for dictatorships.

I feel really lost for words in view of the escalation of this matter. What was obviously an error in judgement made by one member - we can all make mistakes - has ended up in the banning of another member, deletion of threads and posts - some of which should have not been deleted - accusations and counteraccusations, a deluge of posts which were only adding fuel to the fire, and a deplorable spectacle for the Forum and its members.
We have had a mixture of many recent issues all being poured into a big cauldron which is producing a terribly poisonous potion.
Granted, there has been some recent problems which have not been solved and this does not create a beneficial climate, but I would ask everyone and I really mean [B][U]EVERYONE[/U][/B] to sit back, think twice before doing or writing anything and, above all, to realise that this is a public Forum and many people would be wondering what is going on.
As the post which originated this problem has been edited and the response which caused another member's temporary banning has been deleted, I would suggest the following to be done:
1.- To lift the temporary banning of the member
2.- That anyone who has posted sarcastic, offensive, accusatory or otherwise inflammatory messages may delete them voluntarily
3.- To restore those threads that do not contain any offensive material
4.- That members restrain themselves from starting multiple threads and adding unnecessary posts to stir up any unresolved issues apart from the existing threads in the "Circolo"
I know that this may not please everyone but I think that it is the only way to achieve a necessary armistice, because this is becoming a war that most of us do not want.

[quote=Gala Placidia;120357] and a deplorable spectacle for the Forum and its members.
[/quote]

Gala - totally agree with you but not all its members have made a deplorable spectacle - I've been a good girl!

I know, Sarah and many others have also behaved, but I am worried that we may loose valuable members if this is allowed to continue. This is not a war, although we may talk about it humorously in the Circolo, this is a Forum, which means dialogue. I don't think it is a matter of taking sides but to avoid unnecessary confrontation.

Yes Gala, its very difficult all round and needs to be sorted out straight away as unfortunately it looks like things will only get worse. I guess IM know that the posts are picked up by Google and the search engines, and it can't be doing their reputation any good. I would have thought that they would have responded more professionally and with much more speed to stop this developing any further.

Do not worry about losing valuable members Gala as it does not happen. It does not happen because valuable members are are not valued here.

The confrontation happens because the issues are very rarely dealt with and if they are, then there is an uneven biased hand used to dole out punishment rather than sensible solutions.

Right again, Sarah, IM should have acted swiftly upon a simple request but I understand that the person responsible is absent. There is no point in writing new posts and threads on the matter. But this is not the only issue. There are other problems which have been simmering for quite a while in a big cauldron where the main ingredients are hatred, revenge, lack of tolerance, sarcasm and rancour. This is a very toxic potion. I know that some things have happened behind the scenes, but I do not want to hear that as they are personal problems and the Forum is an open place for all people. Everytime someone has a sip of the potion, there is a battle and the sides expect everyone to take positions. Also, the moderators are under a deluge of posts asking for extreme measures to be taken and then, someone may make a hasty decision and.... here we go again. More confrontation and injured. As far as I am concerned, I am going to try to find a solution to this problem. There is an old Spanish saying that says that those who try to play the role of the Redeemer always end up crucified. I may end up that way, but I am willing to take a chance. There are some excellent people here, in both camps and also amongst those who sit on the fence. I think that something constructive can be done.

Well, MA, which is your solution then? One person cannot do much, we need the opinions from others. Also, we need to know which are the wishes of the silent minority. Come on, speak up all of you. Perhaps having some brainstorming we can find a suitable solution.

[quote=Gala Placidia;120375]Well, MA, which is your solution then? One person cannot do much, we need the opinions from others. Also, we need to know which are the wishes of the silent minority. Come on, speak up all of you. Perhaps having some brainstorming we can find a suitable solution.[/quote]

"one person cannot do much" In a way that is so obviously true, except the situation we find ourselves in was because of one person! In which case it appears one person can indeed do too much.
And then another person has decided that they have the authority/power to do even more unanswerable damage to this forum simply because they are in a position to do so!

So you see it is possible for one person to do way to much.... Damage that is,and all because saving face seems to take priority over the importance of doing the right thing..........

Thats what damages the forum more so than any other actions....

[SIZE=1][B](N.B. This is a [U][I]partial[/I][/U] lift from a sub forum thread as it fitted the point)[/B][/SIZE]
Gala, in a perfect world that approach would be the norm and one which everyone would follow. But you cannot pretend that the forums on Italy Mag represent a 'perfect world'. They do not!

My 'by word' for years has been:
[I]"Dialogue is the salvation of sanity!"[/I]

I firmly believe that, and obviously you do too... [U][I]but[/I][/U] what I have, sadly, had to accept here is that dialogue CANNOT take place when/if even one side refuses to participate. Be that Admin, Moderation, or even worse - another member, the results are the same. Dialogue is ignored, disagreements arise and we get to the point of the disintegration of civility and reason.

The [B]ONLY[/B] remedy for [U]all of this[/U] lies firmly in the hands of ONE person who really does need to realize/accept that by [U]constantly[/U] refusing to enter into dialogue (not over several months - [U][I]but several YEARS[/I][/U]), the situation is now at breaking point.

If that point is not reached then whatever solution your good offices come up with, the answer from the non participting individual will be "I never agreed to that!"

So to close - I'll use a modern quote....

"Go figure....!"

I am reluctant to post having been sitting on that fence for a while, not happy with what was happening on the forum and not happy with all the vendettas , and other issues spilling out onto a public forum, as Sarah says if you google, IMF often comes up on the first page when information is asked for, which is a great achievement, for the forum and all its informative and knowledgeable posters. In recent weeks enquirers must have wondered what they had stumbled upon, and to my mind it does no favours to the forum or the Magazine.

That having been said I think the way out of this is to start again for everyone with a clean slate, and look at the positive aspects of the forum, its community and why we are here, and not to apportion blame to anyone.If this cannot be done then I guess the responsibility for failure and the possible failure of the forum as it disintegrates into deeper and more troubled waters, lies with those that cannot move on for what would hopefully be the greater good. I am sure it would not be easy, but must be worth a try.
A

[quote=Gala Placidia;120375]One person cannot do much, we need the opinions from others. Also, we need to know which are the wishes of the silent minority. Come on, speak up all of you. Perhaps having some brainstorming we can find a suitable solution.[/quote]

My thoughts as one of the 'silent minority' and a relatively new member of the forum.

When I joined I thoroughly enjoyed the light hearted banter that ran through the forum. Following the dreadful events in Abruzzo I was hugely impressed by the fund raising efforts (which I believe to now be over £8000) by the members of the forum. Although the earthquake was obviously very serious the members of the forum never seemed to lose their sense of humour.

How very different it is now.

What particularly worries me is that currently there are 11 members and [B]41 GUESTS [/B]on line. What must they think:no:?

My suggestion is that, if members wish to fight/argue, they do so in the privacy of the circolo and allow the rest of the forum to once again be the informative/entertaining place it used to be:yes:

As a relatively short term member who uses the forum mainly for exchange of information rather social discourse I have to say that the passion and energy that many well minded people put into this topic are bewildering. Unfortunately we all meet people in life who we don't gel with or who rub us up the wrong way or who deliberately go out of their way to be offensive. That's a fact of life and the best advise that I can give it to rise above it and not be provoked.."state your truth quiely and clearly" but don't rise to the bait. Life is too short and most objective people aren't naive and can read between the lines of many posts and are able to make their own assessment of people and their posts.

Some may say that that's all very well but it lets the agressor get away with it. If they are ignored and not engaged with that is the best defence. I for one believe in directing my energies elsewhere.

there is within the rules that everyone signs up to when they join this forum a specific section that without any debate on the interpretation of that rule says that all moderating decisions are not to be discussed on the forum... if anyone has a problem with a moderating decison it is to be presented via PM... i presume if there is any debate over that decision in the moderation area there will be a response..

its there for all to read.. and to my mind rather than read the quotes posted in all the threads better read all the rules once again...we have all signed up... and if your post is against a moderator on this forum then i suggest you just stick it in a pm... otherwise it would seem to me you are breaking forum rules... and accept the consequences...

apart from that the previous three sane posts... i think its three... pretty well spell out i would think what most of us feel ...

Marc is a moderator...if you have problems with what he has done PM him... or another moderator and i presume they have pretty normal lives ... so most probably a Sunday afternoon they would have something better to do than answer straight away... and wait... that's your only option on this forum...you wait and they reply... if for some reason you have difficulties with understanding the forum rules then you have an excuse i guess... maybe Italian... otherwise... like any contract in this world the rules apply to all ... not just to the meek and mild... or the ones that appreciate what this place is and is about...it applies to all members... so please could all of you shut up talking about mark deleted posts or anything else... its against forum rules... and get on with life..

lets hope you have a life to get on with... if not its just too sad to contemplate... that an internet forum can cause this much angst

finally just so i fit in with all the daring do people

if mark wants to ban me for breaking forum rules and debating moderator decisons "make my day"

[quote=adriatica;120443]there is within the rules that everyone signs up to when they join this forum a specific section that without any debate on the interpretation of that rule says that all moderating decisions are not to be discussed on the forum... if anyone has a problem with a moderating decison it is to be presented via PM... i presume if there is any debate over that decision in the moderation area there will be a response..

apart from that the previous three sane posts... i think its three... pretty well spell out i would think what most of us feel ...

lets hope you have a life to get on with... if not its just too sad to contemplate... that an internet forum can cause this much angst

finally just so i fit in with all the daring do people

if mark wants to ban me for breaking forum rules and debating moderator decisons "make my day"[/quote]

This rule would work if moderators responded to pms. Perhaps they respond to you but they don’t to me, so perhaps the ‘rules don’t’ apply to all?

I am still waiting for a reply to a pm I sent MarC on 10 – 04 – 09.

No doubt Adriatica your pms are responded to and you therefore have no need to the recourse of posting in order to get a response.

In the past I have reported posts of yours which clearly attack me personally. They were not responded to either.

So maybe if the rules are to be obeyed by those who feel disenfranchised the moderators and admin must also obey them.

[quote=Cinghiale;120427]My thoughts as one of the 'silent minority' and a relatively new member of the forum.

How very different it is now.

What particularly worries me is that currently there are 11 members and [B]41 GUESTS [/B]on line. What must they think:no:?

My suggestion is that, if members wish to fight/argue, they do so in the privacy of the circolo and allow the rest of the forum to once again be the informative/entertaining place it used to be:yes:[/quote]

You deserve a response being as the many grazie brigade have not bothered to bring you up to speed.

You are indeed right about a lot of things except somebody should have told you that possibly most of the 41 guests, think about it 41! are ex members of one sort or another,and that in itself should say something about past history. Although this is not the place or time and maybe its best left dead and buried, except you made a point about 41 Guest..

So it seems reasonable that somebody explain possibly where there are so many of them......

Are guests' IP addresses visible? Just trying to figure out how to determine what proportion are ex-members (don't doubt it- just puzzled how to find out).

IP addresses of guests and members are visible Noma, but you cant find out - you are not allowed to know or see this information - it is protected data and none of your concern.

Also, MA, if you just come back to view and don't want anyone to know you're here by logging in (or can't be ars*d) you will only show as a guest, I believe:smile:

The above statement is copyrighted by the Conspiracies R Us Corporation, Spiesareeverywheres-ville, USA.:bigergrin:

[quote=Mediated Anarchist;120521]IP addresses of guests and members are visible Noma, but you cant find out - you are not allowed to know or see this information - it is protected data and none of your concern.[/quote]
I personally have no desire to. I was trying to figure out how (if at all) one would be able to determine if guests were ex-members. From the responses it sounds like there is no way of knowing.

[quote=giovanni;120507]You deserve a response being as the many grazie brigade have not bothered to bring you up to speed.

So it seems reasonable that somebody explain possibly where there are so many of them......[/quote]

What is this assumption based on please? :veryconfused:
Unless you are able to see the IP addresses I fail to see how one can tell if the figures are guests, members not logged on or indeed ex members - please explain.

Wouldn't want you leading Mr C or anyone up the garden path :winki:

Thank you

Moxie (and him is past caring)

[quote=Gala Placidia;120374]Right again, Sarah, IM should have acted swiftly upon a simple request but I understand that the person responsible is absent. There is no point in writing new posts and threads on the matter. But this is not the only issue. There are other problems which have been simmering for quite a while in a big cauldron where the main ingredients are hatred, revenge, lack of tolerance, sarcasm and rancour. This is a very toxic potion.[B] I know that some things have happened behind the scenes, but I do not want to hear that as they are personal problems and the Forum is an open place for all people[/B]. Everytime someone has a sip of the potion, there is a battle and the sides expect everyone to take positions. Also, the moderators are under a deluge of posts asking for extreme measures to be taken and then, someone may make a hasty decision and.... here we go again. More confrontation and injured. [B]As far as I am concerned, I am going to try to find a solution to this problem[/B]. There is an old Spanish saying that says that those who try to play the role of the Redeemer always end up crucified. I may end up that way, but I am willing to take a chance. There are some excellent people here, in both camps and also amongst those who sit on the fence. I think that something constructive can be done.[/quote]

[quote=Gala Placidia;120375]Well, MA, [B]which is your solution then[/B]? One person cannot do much, we need the opinions from others. Also, we need to know which are the wishes of the silent minority. Come on, speak up all of you. Perhaps having some brainstorming we can find a suitable solution.[/quote]

Apologies for the late response Gala, I didn't see your posts until now - real life dared to get in the way of forum life for a moment. I've quoted both your posts Gala because one relates to the other and the second one asks for me to offer a possible solution. I've highlighted the relevant parts.

Firstly and again with respect, the solution is NOT you. I say this simply because you have already stated that you do not know nor wish to know the problems that have gone on behind the scenes as you believe they are "personal problems". (I have no idea why you would think that, but it's irrelevant anyway)

If you do not and do not want to know then you can not put yourself forward as the absolver of the problem. To give a fair and balanced solution you would have to be well informed on both sides of the problem and also not to have shown any (perceived or real) favouritism to either side in the past. So, as kind as your offer is, without full consent or invitation from either/both side/s, I believe it would not be suitable to put yourself forward for the role you propose.

The solution could be for both sides to be offered the chance to get together and thrash it out by presenting each other with their personal view of the problem and for this to be mediated by Admin/Mods. Should a solution be found that both parties are favourable to, then that is the end of the problem. If a solution is not found then Admin/Mods can make a decision as to what action must be taken.

Both parties would have to be given fair chance to present their case and the ruling or agreement must be final and binding. Should one of the parties decline to participate in the exercise, then by default they will lose any further opportunity to participate in the forum without some form of sanction.

This possible solution can easily be set up "behind closed doors" (it's technically a subforum that only allocated members and Admin can view and enter) and although it is not the responsibility of ItMag or its Admin department to act as counsellors - it is their responsibilty to protect ALL members from abuse that when discovered, reported and ignored, becomes the reason (especially recently) for the spillage onto the main forum through upset, anger and frustration by at least one party not being able to do anything about the abuse or the abuser.

Right, your idea is most interesting and it has a lot of merits. The reason I do not want to hear what happened is that I do not like the role of a judge and besides, my influence is limited. If you think that I am wrong and that I could take a more active role, just let me know. I would like to see this matter solved and I think that a large number of members also feel this way. Cooperation from all parties will be necessary and to get this will not be an easy task. But I am prepared to do anything to see this problem sorted out.

[quote=Moxie;120530]What is this assumption based on please? :veryconfused:
Unless you are able to see the IP addresses I fail to see how one can tell if the figures are guests, members not logged on or indeed ex members - please explain.

Wouldn't want you leading Mr C or anyone up the garden path :winki:

Thank you

Moxie (and him is past caring)[/quote]sorry clearly you are not a mason, therefore need to know bases applies...or call it past experiences of this and similar sites. The point was highlighted about the 41 so called guests being in someway scared off.My point is/was past experience would suggest the word is out on certain website, which have similar topics and historic links that,coming over to ITAL MAG, might be worth a visit........

And on past experiences,whilst i don't bet,the saying would go "its a sure bet"

No Gala, I do not think you are wrong at all. I do not think you or (any other (uninvolved) member) should be placed in the position of Judge and/or Jury to participate in something you do not have full knowledge of. I do not think you should take a more active role other than to either suppport a possible solution or say why you feel it may be unreasonable or unworkable.

Well thank you for your everso slightly patronising and everso slightly irritating response to my enquiry.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place huh?
We need straight talkers on here not mystery shrouded mason men.:masked:

Course I'm not a mason - I'm a girl.:yes:

Furthermore it was on a need to know basis. Half answers are pants.

[quote=giovanni;120536]sorry clearly you are not a mason, therefore need to know bases applies...or call it past experiences of this and similar sites. The point was highlighted about the 41 so called guests being in someway scared off.My point is/was past experience would suggest the word is out on certain website, which have similar topics and historic links that,coming over to ITAL MAG, might be worth a visit........

And on past experiences,whilst i don't bet,the saying would go "its a sure bet"[/quote]

[quote=Noma;120528]I personally have no desire to. I was trying to figure out how (if at all) one would be able to determine if guests were ex-members. From the responses it sounds like there is no way of knowing.[/quote]

Noma, when you register with Italy Mag, the site places a cookie deep within the files.

When you log out you used to get a box saying ‘All cookies cleared’ but you don’t now because the cookies are not cleared and if you visit as a guest the site will recognise the cookie it has hidden in your files and be able to identify you.

You should also bear in mind that although the site displays a membership of over 7,000, fewer than 100 members took part in the ‘Make me pay’ fundraising thread.

To me this means that there are probably only one percent of the membership who are active, either that or they are mean as HELL!!!

As for numbers being further skewed by double membership, I suggest you ask your friend Campfield to explain that.:bigergrin:

Yes, he was a temporary exigency after I received an unpleasant PM. I subsequently found out one can simply turn PMs off, so I don't need him anymore.

As for cookies and IPs, I was merely pointing out to the person saying most of the 41 guests were ex-members that he cannot know this with surety. He later clarified that he was using Masonic principles.

I agree that the 7000 member count does not reflect recently active members.

I promptly deleted the PM.

I've turned off the ability to receive PMs, so to me it's a non-issue. I only mentioned it by way of explanation to Nielo's inquiry about the temporary alternate username.

Perhaps you can give us some indication what this PM said that was so unpleasant that you had to delete it, turn off your PM facility and create another name?

It must have been awful - or cant you remember?

No, but I recall not wanting to receive any more of them. Not yet knowing that I could deactivate PMs, I opened a new username and used it for a few months. Someone posted that if we received unwanted PMs we could simply deactivate them. So now that's done, no need for the alternate username.

[quote=Noma;120567]..... He later [B]clarified[/B] that he was [B]using Masonic principles[/B].

....[/quote]

Contradiction in terms surely?:smile:

I should have made it clearer it was tongue in cheek.

[quote=Moxie;120548]Well thank you for your everso slightly patronising and everso slightly irritating response to my enquiry.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place huh?
We need straight talkers on here not mystery shrouded mason men.:masked:

Course I'm not a mason - I'm a girl.:yes:

Furthermore it was on a need to know basis. Half answers are pants.[/quote]

If the cap fits wear it, because my answer to you was merely aimed straight back at a very patronizing and everso irritating post by you in the first place!!

You did not actually ask how i knew, you actually challenged me how i knew.

To ask would have been polite, but your response tried to cover all basis by stating how one could know such things when IP adresses are unavailable!.
I responded with as little info as i deemed necessary,as an explantion.

But at the end of it all,Its OK ,you will have to live with the fact that you will never know, how i know, but know i do .

have a niceday!

[quote=giovanni;120680]If the cap fits wear it, because my answer to you was merely aimed straight back at a very patronizing and everso irritating post by you in the first place!!

You did not actually ask how i knew, you actually challenged me how i knew.

But at the end of it all,Its OK ,you will have to live with the fact that you will never know, how i know, but know i do .

have a niceday![/quote]

Excuse me Buster I asked you [B]politely[/B] how you knew!!!!! I was actually interested.

Whatever is wrong with you?

Miserable Toad - you that is - not me

I am wounded.

[quote=Moxie;120682]Excuse me Buster I asked you [B]politely[/B] how you knew!!!!! I was actually interested.

Whatever is wrong with you?

Miserable Toad - you that is - not me

I am wounded.[/quote]

Please refrain from such personal terms, you do not know me well enough to either call me Buster or a miserable toad. That way i will not have to mention how well the cap fits you...:bigergrin:

As a regular visitor to the site, lately I've become quite annoyed with the constant bickering that goes on. I decided to log in and actually have my say!!!

This site is for a 'community of people', expressing informative queries, answers and discussions that can benefit all of us.

Hopefully this reply will gain 'thanks' rather than a witty reply.

Moxie - allow me to introduce you to Gio - an old friend of mine - and many others

Gio - allow me to introduce you to Moxie - a new friend of mine - and many others.

This means you must now both be friends with each other. :yes:

Shake hands. :bigergrin:

[quote=Nielo;120561] When you log out you used to get a box saying ‘All cookies cleared’ but you don’t now because the cookies are not cleared and if you visit as a guest the site will recognise the cookie it has hidden in your files and be able to identify you.
[/quote]

Cookies were still being cleared up until yesterday - I got the message come up to say they had been cleared when I logged out last night (not that I am bothered one way or another).

Sorry moved this to circolo (toss up between that and multiple deletions)

Sarah
Whats a "cookie", and if I dont log out, will there be enough to go around?, and are they as good as Phils carrot cake (which you missed)!:bigergrin:
A

Cookies nowhere near as good as P's cakes (so I have heard), not even as good as my tea loaf!

They are little bit of info stored on your computer deep down so it makes them difficult to delete. You can do so by clicking at the top of the page in Internet Explorer on 'tools' then 'internet options' then 'browsing history' if you want to get rid of them.

You may have lots of cookies if you have never cleared them out. If you find any double chocolate chip ones, let me know!

12400 Part 2. Moderator Decisions and bias: Italy Magazine

Please stop!!!!!!